Flash for wildlife - Nikon body.

[Dyslexicbloke]

Exposure... More likely lack of both talent and knowledge...
Onward and upward I guess.

al-pics | photo.net

Just setup Flicker account, the above simply isn't busy enough to get constructive critisisum.
Nothing uploaded yet. (Flickr that is)

Have a look at the house Martin's drinking.

Spent circa 6 Hrs getting those and to be honest none of them are good.
OK so they will print at A4 and look reasonable, until you get close, but from a technical perspective they are pretty poor.

That said, since I have been new going with RAW processing I am increesingly of the opinion that asthmatics, final image, is probably more important than seeing everyone last wisker and feather, but I will confess that junk in always produces junk out.

I am reasonably pleased with some of those... Not that I don't want you do better but to do that I need to remain positive and accept it will take time and practice to get where I want too be.
I also realize, now at least, that I will not be buying a 1500mm F3.5 any time soon, in fact ever, so I have to manage my own expectations.

It's sort of why I am here... My expectations are ultimately high, my skill level is lacking at best and although kit will help it isn't going to maker me better.
However as I learn, I am realising that kit can help when it becomes a limiting factor.

I like the technical aspects of the hobby, hence playing with a flash, I also appreciate some of the boundaries. My lense is likely the best I can justify and ther D90 isn't making there best of it...
Bring on there D7200

No that will not fix me, but it will give me more wriggle room to get batter whilst feeling reasonably good about a few shots, and I guess that is why I decided to try a flash.

Yes I did sorry... functional but we'll used SB-800 in thr post.

Heck at £75 it will come in for something and will likely teach me a thing or tweo even if it doesn't help with house martins. drinking.

Keep it clean coming folks... Learning loads
Thanks.

BTW... Feel free to comment, in any major, on my pics.
There is literally nothing I couldn't do better and likely loads I don't even know I am doing badly in the first place.

Cheers,
Al

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

House Martin Drinking on the Wing 2 | Photo.net

This is an example of where I like the result but at the some time realise I could have done better with what I have too work with and also was probably pushing the boundaries in the first place making improvement harder.

It is well within flash range... Fill light would probably have helped and if my overall focus mechanisme, probably settings as well as kit, had been faster I could have taken it with dynamic focus as opposed to manual.

I set up at a fixed focus send them took bursts when there was a subject passing through.
Dumb luck technique as opposed to anything optimal.
Tooooo many settings and a lack of of detailed knowledge making it very hard to know what to change, for any given setup, or even to know what to attempt to set up in the first place.

Al

 

[Derrel]

The move from the D90 to the D7200 will bring a significant boost in your image-making potential. The D90 was decidedly "old-school" in terms of the sensor, whereas the D7200 was, just a couple of years ago, the absolute state of the art as far as the APS-C sized sensor in the camera. You'll gain over two full stops' worth of dynamic range, as well as the ability to under-expose and then "lift" the shadows in post, to a degree that was simply impossible with the D90.

The Nikon SB800 is a very good flash unit. I use one. It's been very reliable and solidly-built. Good power too.

 

[BrentC]

House Martin Drinking on the Wing 2 | Photo.net

This is an example of where I like the result but at the some time realise I could have done better with what I have too work with and also was probably pushing the boundaries in the first place making improvement harder.

It is well within flash range... Fill light would probably have helped and if my overall focus mechanisme, probably settings as well as kit, had been faster I could have taken it with dynamic focus as opposed to manual.

I set up at a fixed focus send them took bursts when there was a subject passing through.
Dumb luck technique as opposed to anything optimal.
Tooooo many settings and a lack of of detailed knowledge making it very hard to know what to change, for any given setup, or even to know what to attempt to set up in the first place.

Al

First of all the Martin pics aren't bad considering. Martins are fast and hard to get even with fast AF. Even your method of pre-focus would be hard to get good Martin shots so hats off. Its hard to comment because I cannot see the EXIF data on the photos so do not know what your camera settings are. Are you using Auto-ISO or manually setting? What metering? What editing did you do to the RAW file if any?
I don't know the Nikon models well but you should be able to ditch the Pre-focusing and use AF with the D7200. But don't think AF is going to make getting Martins a whole lot easier. If this is your first subject trying bif you picked a very hard one.
I think with these shots, putting aside the D90 limitations, your issue is with exposure.

Can you give all the camera settings for the martin photo?

 

[ac12]

In the spirit of walk before you run.
Catching birds in flight is HARD for many/most people.
And the faster more erratic they fly, the harder it will be to catch them in flight.
Start with the slower predictable flyers, then as you get better move to the faster birds.

I would concentrate on them when perched, where it will be an easier shot.

As for camera

The newer cameras have better Continuous AF than the older cameras.
And predictive AF also.

I would go up to the D7500, rather than the D7200.
The high ISO is 1 stop faster.
And it works properly with the new AF-P lenses.

The AF-P lenses can be used on the D7200, but you CANNOT turn the VR off, which you need to do when on a tripod.​

re flash

Note that IF you use a flash you will only have ONE shot.
It will take about 3-5 seconds for the flash to recycle, and the flying bird will be long gone by then.​

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

From the gallery, click there image... as you did.

Now can pick the title to the right, top, and you will get a bigger view.
scroll down, settings below, comment icons.

Clicking the image again will get you have full size pic... No settings in this view.

Silly interface if you ask me, hence Lickr account.

I know it's hard, believe me I know well, but then isnt that the point.
Had I picked something easy I wouldn't be able to cut myself any slack !!

I don't bespectacled I will ever be a great photographer but I don't plan on letting that stop me trying and challenging myself seems like a reasonable way to get better.

Rawtherapee, also something I need to work on.

You are likely right RE exposure and I suspect I should be shooting wider and cropping more too.
in addition I didn't know at the time about the sharpness sweet spot associated with The stop.
I do now but I don't know what to do with that info or how to go about optimising settings for my kit... O wait, latest kit... More to learn.

I am pleased thought didn't think the manual pre focus and pray method wasn't entirely silly.
That shot was at ISO 1000, because I was attempting too get as much depth of field as possible.

Just bought a blind too, perhaps closer will help.
The little b......s will drink anywhere but where you focus if they can see you.
I was sitting on a foot bridge and there was definitely less activity when I was there than when I was looking on from a distance.

Thasnks,
Al

 

[Dave442]

I used my SB-600 and the Commander Mode to use it off-camera to have the flash closer to birds in the backyard. A pair of birds kept coming in to perch on same spot so I set the flash about 2.5 meters away at about 45 degrees from my position of 4.5 meters from the perch. Then it was just sitting still in a makeshift blind and waiting for them to stop by. I would not try BIF with flash.

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

7500... That boat sailed I am afraid, 7200 it is.

Spent ages reading and thinking, finally decided, on Ballance, the 7200 was the one.
7500 looks marginally better better, ISO noise wise, but has less resolution.
Also saw plenty of comments about the 7500 being a mix of features from other kit as opposed to a well planned unit.

Decided to keep the extra few hundred quid to chuck at other stuff.

Perhaps I will regret that decision in time but however you stack it there are points ford and against both bodies with the only clear fact being trust both are FAR more capable than their 90.

The old me would have worried... Chilled me thinks it is what it is, it made sense at true time and I will roll with it.

Cheers,
Al


Thasnks though.

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

BIF with flash... I think I agree with you but the Martin thing is more akin to the peach scinario.

I suspect AF isn't going too cut it anyway so if using MF at some point and waiting I still think flash may help. Although I take the one time exposure thing on board.

Will the SB-800 not do burst at lower output? given its strobe capability I thought it might.

Al

 

[BrentC]

From the gallery, click there image... as you did.

Now can pick the title to the right, top, and you will get a bigger view.
scroll down, settings below, comment icons.

Clicking the image again will get you have full size pic... No settings in this view.

Silly interface if you ask me, hence Lickr account.

I know it's hard, believe me I know well, but then isnt that the point.
Had I picked something easy I wouldn't be able to cut myself any slack !!

I don't bespectacled I will ever be a great photographer but I don't plan on letting that stop me trying and challenging myself seems like a reasonable way to get better.

Rawtherapee, also something I need to work on.

You are likely right RE exposure and I suspect I should be shooting wider and cropping more too.
in addition I didn't know at the time about the sharpness sweet spot associated with The stop.
I do now but I don't know what to do with that info or how to go about optimising settings for my kit... O wait, latest kit... More to learn.

I am pleased thought didn't think the manual pre focus and pray method wasn't entirely silly.
That shot was at ISO 1000, because I was attempting too get as much depth of field as possible.

Just bought a blind too, perhaps closer will help.
The little b......s will drink anywhere but where you focus if they can see you.
I was sitting on a foot bridge and there was definitely less activity when I was there than when I was looking on from a distance.

Thasnks,
Al

There is nothing won't with pre-focus. Especially capturing birds flying to a feeder. Its great when you have a point of reference like a feeder or a perch that is used often.
I did finally see the settings but it looks like that the hosting site has added some 0's are on some of the measurements or its in some weird format. Let me know if this is correct, 400mm (it displays 4000/10) , 1/800 (it displays 10/8000), ISO 1000. f9.9 (weird)

If so then here are my thoughts.
Shoot wide open. I know that when you pre-focus you want as much depth of field but this is too high for bif's. Easily corrected with your new camera since you will be using AF.
1/800 is to slow, especially for Martins. 1/2000 minimum. This will sharpen up your images. If it was 1/8000 then too high.
You may have to compensate exposure by a stop or more for small dark objects with brighter background.

Closer is always better.

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

I didn't understand it either...

I wash probably shooting with stabisation ON.
400 sounds short, 500-550 is where I would typically be but I wasn't too far away, perhaps 15-20m so it may be correct.

1/800, possibly, pretty sure it want 8000.
the crop factor for that lense is circa 1.5 and with no better guide I may well have gone with a tad less than the effective focal length as a guide for shutter speed.
Had I had stabilisation off I would have gone faster...
Not wasting that is correct just that it is what I likely thought at night time.

1/2000 is fast would I not need silly ISO to go that fast at F5.6 (wide open at 600 (900) mm.

Showing ignorance again... I really should know how to calculate this stuff.

ISO was in auto and capped at 1000 so that would likely be correct.
Bright hot day, sun behind and left

Thanks,
Al.

 

[BrentC]

The general rule is that with a still object and non-stabilized lens you should shoot your focal length. So a 600mm lens you should shoot 1/600 - 1/800. With stabilization you can go slower. Shooting perched smallsbirds I wouldn't shoot lower than 1/500 even with stabilization to account for any movement of the bird.
But with bif's you are shooting a moving object and require a faster shutter to avoid motion blur. Large birds you can get away with 1/1250 but with something fast like a Martin you will need at least 1/2000. With a hummingbird 1/4000.
Your images aren't sharp because of motion blur.
Shooting wide open will allow you to shoot faster and keep your ISO down. I don't know what the D90 is like but I would imagine it can handle a little higher ISO. With your new camera don't cap it.

And light is very important. Always try to keep the sun behind you.

 

[ac12]

My theory on ISO is that I would rather have high ISO noise on a sharp picture than low noise on a blurry picture.
So raise the ISO to what you need to get the pix.
The D7200 will let you shoot higher ISO with less noise.

I regularly shoot night sports under lights at ISO 12800, and the images are fine.
Bud very oddly, shooting at 12800 in the gym, I get more noisy images.
So you will have to shoot and see what YOU get with your camera, and how it looks.

I agree with BC, shoot wide open. Unless you NEED the additional DoF.
That lets you shoot at a lower ISO and a higher shutter speed.
Then trust the AF to get the bird in focus.

The faster the "apparent" speed of the bird, the faster your shutter speed has to be.
This is a bit tricky, cuz the "apparent" speed increases the closer the bird is to you, and slows the farther the bird is from you.

Example a jet at 30,000 feet altitude is easy to shoot at 1/125 of a second, because the "apparent" speed is relatively slow. But the same plane at 1,000 feet altitude will seem to move much faster.​

So what should your shutter speed be? You have to shoot and experiment. And take notes, so that you can study them later, to see what shutter speed worked for what types of shots.

As for flash.
If you lower the power level, to get a faster recycle; you reduce your flash range, because of the lower power level.
Trade-off, there is no free lunch.

 

[Dyslexicbloke]

Apparent speed...
Can't believe I didn't clock that...

They were flying basically toward me as you can see, hence the attempt to get a bigger DOF.
Max burst on the D90 is a little under 4FPS, although now I think about it that may be mirror up, it could be under 3...

Anyhow that's a big chunk of distance with a subject moving so fast.

High ISO performance on the D90 is not good, in modern terms, anything above 1600 needs so. much noise reduction that though loose detail and if you have to drop into a small subject it's just awfully.

Looks ok as a 6X4 provided there isn't too much flat colour but why bother!

I should probably have tried shooting from the side, later in the afternoon, if nothing else I would have realised, when I just got a streak, that the shutter was too slow.

All good points, some of which I hadn't previously considered.
Very much appreciated.

Take notes... Oh dear I am going to have to stay braking this stuff seriously.
Makes sense though.
I as going to ask about test subjects but I guess that is answered... too variable, pay attention when shooting anything and make a note of what works/dosnt

I am going to have to go out on Sun and see what can find to point at.

Anyone know how to attract a red kite, several nesting pairs locally but usually too high to bother with in flight. If I was in the garden with the camera ready I may get one lower down but there isn't anything I have found yet that causes them to come back to one place, buzzards are much the same.

I realise there power distance trade-off thing RE flash, it's one of the reasons I think a lense may help, assuming I can set it up and the wind didn't catch it.

What I was getting at is that I thought the SB-800 could fire more than once, in i-TTL mode, provided the first flash hadn't fully discharged it. Cycle time is in seconds, even with the best possible PSU so that isn't going to help at all, in burst.

Is there anything like a focused PIR or movement detection based on an image that could be used as a shutter release when pre focussed and framed.

I now some security cameras trigger recording when the image changes by some step margine.
Anything in Life view that can trigger a capture in a similar way?
If not perhaps there should be...

I think I feel a project coming on.... Raspberry PI with composite feed from the camera, who knows.

 

[BrentC]

I would also practice on larger birds and develop your panning skills. Fast shutter speed helps a lot but you need to be able to pan smoothly with the target. Seagulls, dicks and geese are great subjects to start with and practice on.