Freeze Motion - Slow Lens and Flash?

[wfooshee]

I really like 9062!!!!

As stated above, back-button vs shutter-button doesn't change how well or how quickly the focus works, it just changes the handling of the camera by the photographer.

I will say that when I replaced the kit 55-200 that came with my D50 (3 cameras ago...) with Nikon's 70-300 ED VF lens, focus performance was improved dramatically. The new lens never hunted, and never started the wrong direction. Image quality improved about ten times as much as focus performance. And I'm not talking about a 2,000-dollar lens, either; it was less that 500. I dumped the kit lens on eBay for a C-note, which helped, too.

 

[Derrel]

My favorite is this one: img_8996-1-jpg.99125

See, I LIKE that panning feeling! It conveys action so much differently than stop-motion does. I know some people are not enthusiastic about panning, but I love it.

 

[Kwenami]

I really like 9062!!!!

As stated above, back-button vs shutter-button doesn't change how well or how quickly the focus works, it just changes the handling of the camera by the photographer.

I will say that when I replaced the kit 55-200 that came with my D50 (3 cameras ago...) with Nikon's 70-300 ED VF lens, focus performance was improved dramatically. The new lens never hunted, and never started the wrong direction. Image quality improved about ten times as much as focus performance. And I'm not talking about a 2,000-dollar lens, either; it was less that 500. I dumped the kit lens on eBay for a C-note, which helped, too.

I like the light in that one even though I feel the exposure isn't great. The sun is on the right side of her face

What lens did you upgrade to? I definitely thought I was going to need to spend in the 2000$ range...I'm a bit leery of used since electronics die and lenses can be mistreated and scratched easily (I worked in a photonics lab where micro scratches = total waste of anything you're doing). At least that would bring the new gear faster, if not right away.

My favorite is this one: img_8996-1-jpg.99125

See, I LIKE that panning feeling! It conveys action so much differently than stop-motion does. I know some people are not enthusiastic about panning, but I love it.

I do like the effect-I actually got an accidental shot of a red winged black bird that was blurry and has the panning feeling that I love. But I think that's a different topic Trying to master one technique to start! lol

 

[Braineack]

Stop worrying about iso and crank the shutter speed up fast enough to freeze the motion.

using tapatalk.

 

[wfooshee]

What lens did you upgrade to?

This one


Which doesn't help you as a Canon user. I'm thinking this is their equivalent, primarily based on the price similarity.

 

[Valjean24601]

I think what makes this difficult is that there are so many variables involved and there isn't any one technique that works 100% of the time. An entry level camera isn't going to have the AF speed of their more expensive counterparts. I am not knocking the camera, merely stating a fact. Some lenses focus faster than others. This doesn't necessarily mean that fast lenses (wide apertures) focus faster. Case in point: the Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a notoriously slow focusing lens. I think there are some fine shots in there. And there are some that can be improved. I might think the first thing to adjust is your expectations. I took my 4-year old nephew to the park one day. If memory serves, I snapped something like 180 images (and my nephew doesn't move nearly as fast as a dog!). Out of that, I think I had 10-images that I really liked. I remember I had five or six images of him standing at a captains wheel pretending to steer the boat and in only one of the images did I catch him so that I got his eyes as he was looking through the spokes. I guess what I am saying is that not every image is going to be a work of art. And especially when trying to capture fast moving pictures, your "keeper rate" is going to be minimal. The point is to know this and capture as many as you can (whilst trying to capture good images, not just slinging mud on the wall).

One thing to always keep in mind: be aware of the light. Might sound silly, but everything is based on the light. You like the image where the right side of the dog is lit? Position yourself so that is where the light is: lighting the right side of the dog. Maybe you don't get as many pictures, but hopefully more you like. The camera can't help where the light is!

Light impacts your ISO. You have to have enough light intensity in order to shoot at ISO 400. Moving into the shade might mean ISO 800 or 1600. If you don't like those ISO's, don't shoot in the lighting conditions that demand these ISO's!

Shutter controls motion. A fast shutter freezes motion. A slow shutter blurs motion. There are two types of motion: yours and the subjects. In all cases, motion is relative. A sleeping dog can be captured with a slower shutter than a running dog. Shutter speed is dependent on the light, especially if you want a fast shutter speed to freeze motion. The faster the shutter speed, the more light you need all else being equal.

Flash can be used to freeze motion, but in this case (outdoor shooting of a running dog), I don't think it's the best solution. The key to using flash to freezing motion is understanding that you are using the flash duration to freeze your subject.

Finally, can better lenses and better cameras improve things, such as AF speed. Sure. But that's the thing: they can improve things! Which goes back to establishing expectations. You won't get the same results using your current gear as you would with better gear. Otherwise, we wouldn't say the better gear can make a difference!

 

[NCspotter]

Try different focus settings. A single point focus can be difficult at first, but you really just have to make sure that the object you are trying to focus on (in this case, you dog) is right in the middle of the viewfinder. It should stay in focus a lot easier.

 

[Kwenami]

I think what makes this difficult is that there are so many variables involved and there isn't any one technique that works 100% of the time. An entry level camera isn't going to have the AF speed of their more expensive counterparts. I am not knocking the camera, merely stating a fact. Some lenses focus faster than others. This doesn't necessarily mean that fast lenses (wide apertures) focus faster. Case in point: the Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a notoriously slow focusing lens. I think there are some fine shots in there. And there are some that can be improved. I might think the first thing to adjust is your expectations. I took my 4-year old nephew to the park one day. If memory serves, I snapped something like 180 images (and my nephew doesn't move nearly as fast as a dog!). Out of that, I think I had 10-images that I really liked. I remember I had five or six images of him standing at a captains wheel pretending to steer the boat and in only one of the images did I catch him so that I got his eyes as he was looking through the spokes. I guess what I am saying is that not every image is going to be a work of art. And especially when trying to capture fast moving pictures, your "keeper rate" is going to be minimal. The point is to know this and capture as many as you can (whilst trying to capture good images, not just slinging mud on the wall).

One thing to always keep in mind: be aware of the light. Might sound silly, but everything is based on the light. You like the image where the right side of the dog is lit? Position yourself so that is where the light is: lighting the right side of the dog. Maybe you don't get as many pictures, but hopefully more you like. The camera can't help where the light is!

Light impacts your ISO. You have to have enough light intensity in order to shoot at ISO 400. Moving into the shade might mean ISO 800 or 1600. If you don't like those ISO's, don't shoot in the lighting conditions that demand these ISO's!

Shutter controls motion. A fast shutter freezes motion. A slow shutter blurs motion. There are two types of motion: yours and the subjects. In all cases, motion is relative. A sleeping dog can be captured with a slower shutter than a running dog. Shutter speed is dependent on the light, especially if you want a fast shutter speed to freeze motion. The faster the shutter speed, the more light you need all else being equal.

Flash can be used to freeze motion, but in this case (outdoor shooting of a running dog), I don't think it's the best solution. The key to using flash to freezing motion is understanding that you are using the flash duration to freeze your subject.

Finally, can better lenses and better cameras improve things, such as AF speed. Sure. But that's the thing: they can improve things! Which goes back to establishing expectations. You won't get the same results using your current gear as you would with better gear. Otherwise, we wouldn't say the better gear can make a difference!

I do tend to have high expectations, but mostly in terms of progress and improvement rather than a finished product. I'd have a hard time removing that regardless-and sure it makes things challenging, but it also keeps me moving normally. I do think I can still improve with the gear I have, and its unfortunate that I can't just upgrade because I'm sure the difference would be wonderful but it has to wait I think the problem is that I really don't like ANY of the shots in there. Some have nice aspects to them, but it's so easy to see the things I want to change. When the focus is off, it drives me nuts the most because you can't fix that in post-so that is what I would like to improve the fastest. There may not be any one technique, but almost none have been mentioned here as far as procedures go to figure out what I need. So far, I've started with my preferred ISO and shutter speed, and adjusted from there. I've been most comfortable with back button focusing since a week after I got my camera, so I've been using that. Using the flash has helped but I need a better way of setting up for sports-which I've seen and know is do-able.

Thank you for clarifying "This doesn't necessarily mean that fast lenses (wide apertures) focus faster." - what would I look at when purchasing a new lens to see how fast it does focus? Is there not a spec. for this, for a given focal length? Or is this based on reviews only? Is there a lens you recommend (preferably one that would work on both crop/full frame sensor cameras), or one specifically that is used? Just for a reference point, this won't happen for a while obviously. Gear does make a difference, but I would like to learn around this anyways I know that it will change the ratio of shots I like, but 1-2 of 500 is a really awful ratio Most of the ones I've posted I dislike, and would not post elsewhere except for learning purposes.

I was positioned on the correct side the entire time to have the light start with her darker eye...but I think maybe I need to choose a weekend where time is more flexible to shoot during? I've never really liked how full sun blows out my background if I'm exposing for Koda-in full sun we were shooting at 400 or 800 ISO so I really am not sure what else is going to give that intensity besides my solar simulator at the lab...which would burn a hole through things. What would you recommend as the best solution for freezing motion in this case, if not using flash to freeze? I have noticed that when I use it (indoors) it helps significantly, but I'm obviously still new to using it outdoors. Does anyone have suggestions on how to not have a dog you're trying to encourage to run around not knock over a tripod? This is why I felt the flash would be beneficial-it gives me some control over the lighting (I also have one already that has HSS, and its used for other things as well)-since obviously controlling the time of day is not working as easily. It does mean I need to wait for her to hit a certain point, but she has solid stays and releases, so I can use that training to my advantage. So far, she's been great at helping me learn portraits since we've worked on posing for the camera in a stay

 

[Valjean24601]

In terms of lenses, I don't know much about Canon lenses I am afraid. Overall, a prime will focus faster (but stay away from a macro which might hunt for the split second). The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is notorious for slow focusing. I would probably look at the Sigma 50mm f/1.4. Check the reviews of the Canon 85mm f/1.8 (I know the Nikon 85mm f/1.8 rocks but that doesn't help!). And probably the envious lens (from a Nikon shooters standpoint) to have is the Canon 135mm f/2.0. But that is also rather long on a cropped sensor body.

In terms of using flash, it is flash duration that freezes motion. In a nutshell, you underexpose for the ambient and rely on flash for proper exposure. The flash duration might be 1/1000th of a second, and thus thus freezes the motion. This is a piece of cake to do inside. Much more difficult outside with a shoe mount flash. Using HSS won't help with flash freezing motion as you are balancing ambient and flash. The blur will still come from the ambient light.

In terms of improving simply using what you have now... again, there may not be any one "thing". For me, I would probably try locking in the center focus point, knowing that when I brought the camera to my eye I would want to focus on the chest/collar. Why? That is where we have the most contrast. Trying to focus on an eye from this distance lacks contrast making quick focus very difficult. If using a single focus point, single shot wasn't working. I would try the continuous focusing method. Personally, I have never been a fan, but if it increases your keeper rate then use it. And of course, there is always the auto-auto AF. Maybe use that as a baseline one afternoon. Maybe that afternoon you get zero images! At least you know the other things you are doing are helping!!

Finally, I really can't stress enough to understand the importance of the lighting and perspective. As example, if the sun is blowing out the background, bring a step ladder to stand on. Now you are changing your perspective by shooting down, thus avoiding a "brighter" sky. Light has four principle characteristics: quality, direction, color, & intensity. They all have to come together in order to get a great image. And when shooting natural light, you simply have to wait for that to happen. But the point is to recognize when it happens and then that's the day to take a LOT of pictures.

 

[Kwenami]

In terms of lenses, I don't know much about Canon lenses I am afraid. Overall, a prime will focus faster (but stay away from a macro which might hunt for the split second). The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is notorious for slow focusing. I would probably look at the Sigma 50mm f/1.4. Check the reviews of the Canon 85mm f/1.8 (I know the Nikon 85mm f/1.8 rocks but that doesn't help!). And probably the envious lens (from a Nikon shooters standpoint) to have is the Canon 135mm f/2.0. But that is also rather long on a cropped sensor body.

In terms of using flash, it is flash duration that freezes motion. In a nutshell, you underexpose for the ambient and rely on flash for proper exposure. The flash duration might be 1/1000th of a second, and thus thus freezes the motion. This is a piece of cake to do inside. Much more difficult outside with a shoe mount flash. Using HSS won't help with flash freezing motion as you are balancing ambient and flash. The blur will still come from the ambient light.

In terms of improving simply using what you have now... again, there may not be any one "thing". For me, I would probably try locking in the center focus point, knowing that when I brought the camera to my eye I would want to focus on the chest/collar. Why? That is where we have the most contrast. Trying to focus on an eye from this distance lacks contrast making quick focus very difficult. If using a single focus point, single shot wasn't working. I would try the continuous focusing method. Personally, I have never been a fan, but if it increases your keeper rate then use it. And of course, there is always the auto-auto AF. Maybe use that as a baseline one afternoon. Maybe that afternoon you get zero images! At least you know the other things you are doing are helping!!

Finally, I really can't stress enough to understand the importance of the lighting and perspective. As example, if the sun is blowing out the background, bring a step ladder to stand on. Now you are changing your perspective by shooting down, thus avoiding a "brighter" sky. Light has four principle characteristics: quality, direction, color, & intensity. They all have to come together in order to get a great image. And when shooting natural light, you simply have to wait for that to happen. But the point is to recognize when it happens and then that's the day to take a LOT of pictures.

How do you control the flash duration speed then? I know how to change the power output-is it a direct conversion (I would assume not)? It definitely is easier indoors than out, but indoors means boring backgrounds to an extreme. If I wait for a nice day...well let's just say I doubt I'm going to be super lucky. So even taking advantage of those days, it may only be once every 4 months...

I have been switching where I focus to experiment-her chest (the white) and her blue eye, even if its the farther eye, because it's normally VERY bright compared to the rest of her. But it is still difficult due to size, so I was experimenting with both and felt I didn't get a huge difference. It is already set for continuous focusing to attempt to increase the rate but I find its still a bit slow and doesn't always match up with, say, a burst of shots. I already know that auto-auto focus sucks and is going to produce a consistent level of blurry shots for me But they're sometimes consistently less blurry than if I'm trying to figure things out and at some weird setting, which is fair.

I'm not really looking for any one 'thing'...more like all of them. Not sure why you're raising that again?

 

[Valjean24601]

The only control you have for flash duration is the power level of the flash. Often, flash duration isn't a published spec. In cases of monolights (such as Buff's Einstein strobe), there may be a published spec. For most shoe mount flashes, the duration is slower at higher power levels (maybe something along 1/800th of a second) and faster (maybe up to 1/40,000th) at the lowest power levels. And if the light is only perfect once every four months, then it is what it is. Your camera is simply a tool used to record light. The camera is in no way responsible for the light it records any more so than a tape recorder is responsible for the sound it records.

In terms of focusing, there isn't much more you can do if the method you are currently using is the best of your choices. So long as you remember that a camera needs contrast in order to focus and you are trying to find a good area of contrast, that's about all you can do without getting better gear?

In terms of the one more thing, I am simply referring to "other" tips to use the current gear to it's potential. If you have experimented with the different focusing methods and trying to find easy areas of contrast the only other things to do are wait for the right light and/or get better gear. You had asked about something like using flash to freeze motion and in this case, I don't think it's going to work (well, maybe with something like an Einstein strobe) as you have to overpower the existing ambient. Something a shoe mount flash isn't made for.

 

[Inga the Rottie]

You seriously need a super super close up of that blue eye. It is gorgeous. Your whole dog is but...that eye, WOW!!! I think you are doing pretty well. I know what you mean about looking at the photos and thinking "this just isn't what I want and how do I get there." Lot of good advice on this board. Mine is, keep on clicking. Practice Practice Practice.

 

[Kwenami]

The only control you have for flash duration is the power level of the flash. Often, flash duration isn't a published spec. In cases of monolights (such as Buff's Einstein strobe), there may be a published spec. For most shoe mount flashes, the duration is slower at higher power levels (maybe something along 1/800th of a second) and faster (maybe up to 1/40,000th) at the lowest power levels. And if the light is only perfect once every four months, then it is what it is. Your camera is simply a tool used to record light. The camera is in no way responsible for the light it records any more so than a tape recorder is responsible for the sound it records.

In terms of focusing, there isn't much more you can do if the method you are currently using is the best of your choices. So long as you remember that a camera needs contrast in order to focus and you are trying to find a good area of contrast, that's about all you can do without getting better gear?

In terms of the one more thing, I am simply referring to "other" tips to use the current gear to it's potential. If you have experimented with the different focusing methods and trying to find easy areas of contrast the only other things to do are wait for the right light and/or get better gear. You had asked about something like using flash to freeze motion and in this case, I don't think it's going to work (well, maybe with something like an Einstein strobe) as you have to overpower the existing ambient. Something a shoe mount flash isn't made for.

I guess that's why it does work indoors-typically at night. Maybe we can go outside at 9PM and see what happens for fun...get something other than a white background.

I did take some photos in auto (didn't have much time, there were birds!). The birds came out okay, even the black ones...the dog, not so much. I guess what I'm doing is helping, just not as much as I want it to. Boo for being broke.

I still feel like I could be using my gear better, but after taking some auto photos...maybe you're right, and the gear upgrade is what's needed. I just don't want to miss anything so that when I do upgrade I have less of a learning curve and can just got crazy I do really appreciate that advice, it does put things more into perspective and although its not something I'm super happy about maybe I don't feel as demotivated. Maybe

You seriously need a super super close up of that blue eye. It is gorgeous. Your whole dog is but...that eye, WOW!!! I think you are doing pretty well. I know what you mean about looking at the photos and thinking "this just isn't what I want and how do I get there." Lot of good advice on this board. Mine is, keep on clicking. Practice Practice Practice.

I want a macro lens for it...nothing else I've taken do I really like. But it sort of goes back to what will help more, and I think I'd prefer faster gear over a macro since the lenses I looked at so far are comparable costs.. Thanks for the support. I really admire Suran's work (21 Extreme Close Ups of the Human Eye TwistedSifter but I think it would take me too long to get there with all the other priorities I have as well.

I attached a photo I saved (not very well, but I think it's too funny not to save). Not loving the shadow from the pop up (which triggers my flash, which didn't fire) butttt I'm going to add it because she's cute. I also put one from inside, which isn't the greatest either, but I love that she moves fast enough to flop her ears.

 

[Braineack]

you dont really need a gear upgrade. you just need to learn how to use your current gear.


this is 1/60sec.


cat is stopped dead mid air:

 

[Kwenami]

you dont really need a gear upgrade. you just need to learn how to use your current gear.


this is 1/60sec.


cat is stopped dead mid air:

Mind saying the setup? Saying that it's possible and conflicting with previous advice is great, because it means I can still improve, but not explaining HOW or WHY isn't very helpful. I also have a black subject, not white/beige, which does make a difference...