Fully manual

[monkeykoder]

Why is it that we don't see fully manual DSLRs? It seems like they're trying to pack a bunch of features in there that frankly I'd rather not pay for.

Is it a case of "Have battery must abuse it" or is there an underlying reason to it.

It seems I get much more satisfaction out of shooting my FM10 than I ever do out of my D50 to a large extent it seems it is because I slow down when I shoot the FM10 giving me that extra half-second of contemplation before I click the shutter release. Is it just me or are there other people out there that wish they could get a digital camera which is basically a Fully Manual film camera with a battery and digital capture (without spending an arm and a leg for a Leica M8)?

 

[usayit]

Why is it that we don't see fully manual DSLRs? It seems like they're trying to pack a bunch of features in there that frankly I'd rather not pay for.

Is it a case of "Have battery must abuse it" or is there an underlying reason to it.

It seems I get much more satisfaction out of shooting my FM10 than I ever do out of my D50 to a large extent it seems it is because I slow down when I shoot the FM10 giving me that extra half-second of contemplation before I click the shutter release. Is it just me or are there other people out there that wish they could get a digital camera which is basically a Fully Manual film camera with a battery and digital capture (without spending an arm and a leg for a Leica M8)?

You are not alone... I want a digital K1000. The key is market. The market is too small for anyone to make it worth their while. The closest that I can think of would be an Leica R8 or R9 with a Digital back.... but at a high price of admission. The argument is that all DSLRs cameras can be shot in full manual as an option... so marketing a manual only camera is very difficult. My complaint is that most DSLRs today do not lend themselves very well to manual focus.

Boy do I wish that "digital film" project actually came to market... i would have so much fun with it.

BTW.. Leica M8 isn't a DSLR.

 

[Garbz]

Errr... set the Focus and the Exposure dials to M?

Every digital SLR I've used has the option of being fully manual!?!

 

[Battou]

Errr... set the Focus and the Exposure dials to M?

Every digital SLR I've used has the option of being fully manual!?!

That is not the point, MK is asking why a lineup of dSLRs are not made where M is not an option, but all there is. Like a digital AE-1 so to speak.





If a dSLR like that where made I might almost buy one. I personally feel the easy way is seldom the right way, I can't stand having all those dumbass options at my fingertips.

 

[usayit]

I think part of the reasoning behind the OP also includes the feel of an older camera. There is certainly a difference between cameras today (plastic) and yesterday (metal). This is especially true for manual lenses and viewfinder.

 

[Battou]

I think part of the reasoning behind the OP also includes the feel of an older camera. There is certainly a difference between cameras today (plastic) and yesterday (metal). This is especially true for manual lenses and viewfinder.

Yeah, That is actually why I would not garentee my purchasse of one, I do perfer the old tanks and how they feel. When I was looking to get back into photography I briefly looked at one of the EOS film bodies and quickly put it back on the shelf, I did not like the feel. On top of it having options I did not need.

If they felt like an AE-1 than I'd have one but...

 

[tirediron]

That is not the point, MK is asking why a lineup of dSLRs are not made where M is not an option, but all there is. Like a digital AE-1 so to speak.





If a dSLR like that where made I might almost buy one. I personally feel the easy way is seldom the right way, I can't stand having all those dumbass options at my fingertips.

And when the Nikon F hit the streets, all the old-timers then were saying "What's this? A camera with a built-in light meter? Who needs that???" Thing you're forgetting is, when the the AE-1, and the K1000 came out, they were the SLR to have; the newest, most modern piece of kit, with the cutting-edge features. I remember lusting after a K1000, but never quite having the $$$ to afford one... What I would like to see is someone produce an SLR with the build quality of the old Ashai Spotmatics, or Mirandas... THAT I would buy, regardless of features.

 

[Battou]

And when the Nikon F hit the streets, all the old-timers then were saying "What's this? A camera with a built-in light meter? Who needs that???" Thing you're forgetting is, when the the AE-1, and the K1000 came out, they were the SLR to have; the newest, most modern piece of kit, with the cutting-edge features. I remember lusting after a K1000, but never quite having the $$$ to afford one... What I would like to see is someone produce an SLR with the build quality of the old Ashai Spotmatics, or Mirandas... THAT I would buy, regardless of features.

lol yeah I'll admit I don't think of TTL as a unnecessary feature, shutter speed priority thought is, and I keep fortgetting the AE-1 has that, but to tell you the truth I prefer the build and weight of the Canons over the Pentax.


Sometimes I think my H2 is going to float away

 

[someguy5]

I wish my Rebel XT had seperate controls for aperture and shutter in M mode. Using the same dial for both usually makes me mess up.

 

[bhop]

I probably still wouldn't buy one. I can just scan film from my old 70's-80's cameras, then it's a digital image and i've got the best of both worlds. I'm not a pro, so speed from camera to computer/print doesn't matter to me.

 

[ksmattfish]

...why a lineup of dSLRs are not made where M is not an option, but all there is.

Nikon, Canon, and Pentax haven't introduced a new, all manual film camera that I can think of in over 25 years. It has nothing to do with digital.

The Nikon FM was introduced in 1977. They upgrade it to the FM2 and FM2n in 1982, and 1984. Sometime around 2000 they added aperture priority and called it the FM3a. The upgrades for each model were minor, and didn't require significant (expensive) redesign.

I think the Nikon F3 came out in 1980.

In 1995 Nikon began selling the FM-10, but it's not made by Nikon, and is actually the Cosina CT-1, which was introduced around 1970. Other cameras that are really Cosina CT-1s: Canon T60 (introduced 1990), Oly OM2000, Ricoh KR-5, etc... The differences are lens mount and cosmetic.

The Pentax K1000 was introduced in 1976.

Some other brands have introduced all manual 35mm film cameras, but they are small production runs targeting collectors, and you'll notice they cost significantly more than Nikon or Canon's cheapest electronic, AF 35mm SLRs. An all manual DSLR would be a very custom built camera, and cost significantly more than the feature laden models.

Before I went digital I only used old, no-battery (except for the meter, if they had one), fully manual film cameras. Learning to turn off all the features I don't need in my fancy, smancy DSLRs only took reading through the manual.

Don't blame the gear. There is no zombie mind control feature in any DSLR. Lack of discipline is a flaw within the photographer, not the camera.

 

[Easy_Target]

It seems I get much more satisfaction out of shooting my FM10 than I ever do out of my D50 to a large extent it seems it is because I slow down when I shoot the FM10 giving me that extra half-second of contemplation before I click the shutter release. Is it just me or are there other people out there that wish they could get a digital camera which is basically a Fully Manual film camera with a battery and digital capture (without spending an arm and a leg for a Leica M8)?

We're in the same boat, almost literally. I have an FM10 and a D50 as well. I personally like shooting the FM10 more than the D50. When I use the D50, my feeling is sort of nonchalant.

I've used this story/analogy to describe my views on the subject.

A DSLR is like a machine gun and an all manual SLR is like a bolt action rifle. Sure it's fun to just hold down the trigger and blast away at things, but after a while it gets old. You've got a 500 round ammo belt to just let loose.

An all manual SLR is a different beast altogether. You sit there on your perch waiting for it. You're almost like a sniper, waiting for the right moment. One shot. One kill. You sight your target. You adjust your scope. You chamber a round. You take the shot. If you miss, you chamber another round and hope you can make a second attempt. Take your shots, but never forget your ammo is extremely limited, only 36 shots before you waste critical seconds reloading. Think fast. Think smart.





Then there's also the issue of the lens. I just don't like the way the new lenses feel. It's too loose and they move around too freely when focusing manually. I just LOVE the tactile sensation of the old lenses, super smooth movements that you could do with a single finger. The feedback I get from the camera is a major aspect for me in photography. DSLRs, it's just "pressing the little red button," to me. Whereas an all manual SLR, the process of taking a picture itself, is something I create with my own hands.

 

[ksmattfish]

That is not the point, MK is asking why a lineup of dSLRs are not made where M is not an option, but all there is. Like a digital AE-1 so to speak.

The Canon AE-1 is not an all manual camera. It has shutter priority mode. It's recognized as the first camera with a microprocessor and was completely electronically controlled, making it the great grand daddy of all the fully electronic, gizmo laden cameras to come.

 

[Big Mike]

Why is it that we don't see fully manual DSLRs?

Of all the DSLR cameras sold, probably 80% to 90% of them are bought by people who will never use M mode.
Like it or not, those are the people who 'pay the bills' and allow the manufacturers to sell us cameras at the prices they do. Camera companies have to cater to those people, which is why our cameras have a mode dial with 'pictures' on it.

As mentioned, just because a camera has all these modes and features, doesn't mean that you have to use them.

 

[Easy_Target]

There's still the issue of not enough feedback from the gear. It's as if you're going through life wearing a giant latex condom.