Is DPreview.com always so unfriendly?

[bace]

Considering how close you came to getting banned here, they'd probably ban you before you were done registering.


















Just teasin ya...you know we love ya.

Or maybe my mean spirited sarcasm would fit in better there?

 

[Corry]

Or maybe my mean spirited sarcasm would fit in better there?

Ya know, that's a good point actually.

But don't leave US!!!!

 

[fmw]

And then you wouldn't buy a new camera for at least 10 years! That is why Nikon (and the others) don't want an upgradeable camera/sensor system. They much rather sell us whole cameras than just shove-in chips.
If you were a camera manufacturer, what would you do?

Nikon has been reasonably successful building and selling cameras with a long lifespan for quite a while. I mentioned a couple of them above. Planned obselescence didn't work for the U.S. auto industry in the 1960's and 1970's either. The imports took a lot market share from them.

What would I do? I would make a pro level digital SLR with future upgradeable sensors and leave everyone else trying to catch up.

There is no doubt that the sensors of today are better than the sensors of 5 years ago. But why replace a whole camera body just to get an improved sensor? Isn't there some business benefit for those who make products that respond to consumers needs and desires?

 

[fmw]

Should I go get em?

I'll mess em up good. I'll even incite a forum raid from a bunch of ravers!

You want me to get em....eh let me atem!!

Don't waste the time. They aren't worth it. They have some good reviews to read but the forums aren't worth visiting.

 

[Big Mike]

I often think how the (big) camera companies must be laughing while rolling in their big piles of money. There is this issue, professional cameras that are updated every two years...but look at the consumer level cameras...the digital point & shoot cameras. It seams that almost everyone I know has a small digital camera...most costing at least $300...many are more expensive than that. Most of those people probably had a $40 film camera that last them 10 years...and probably took better images than their $300 digital.

Back to the professional cameras...yes they are improving all the time...but the current ones are very good and pretty much comparable to 35mm film...so even if a newer, better camera comes out next year...there is no 'need' to upgrade. If a current DSLR can do everything you need...you should be able to use it happily for 10 years or more.

 

[PNA]

Back to the professional cameras...yes they are improving all the time...but the current ones are very good and pretty much comparable to 35mm film...so even if a newer, better camera comes out next year...there is no 'need' to upgrade. If a current DSLR can do everything you need...you should be able to use it happily for 10 years or more.

Can’t agree with you more…..that said, what next?? Laser imaging cameras? Or do they already exist?

 

[Alex_B]

If a current DSLR can do everything you need...you should be able to use it happily for 10 years or more.

But there might be a bitter pill for us ...
Anyone got experience with 10 year old sensors?
the problem is it's rather complicated materials, just like processors in computers, they do suffer from degradation when getting older ... and the more minaturized things get, the worse things get here.

Maybe we are lucky and degradation will not occur quickly since sensors operate at a much lower temperature that CPUs, but you never know ... I do kow people who claim, after a couple of years the images from their sensors are not as good anymore compared with when they bought them. Maybe this is just that those people degrade and cannot take good pictures anymore ... but you never know.

I personally therefore would not rely on a sensor to be a very long term investment ...

 

[Big Mike]

Ya, it's still kind of an unproven technology. Who knows how long these things will actually last.

Come to think about it...the sensor really is the most expensive part of the camera. That's one reason why full frame (Canon 5D, 1Ds etc.) are so expensive.

If you could upgrade the sensor it would probably cost a good portion of the whole camera's price just for the part. Then take into account the delicate labour that would be involved...it would cost just as much or more than most DLSR cameras. We might as well just buy a new camera from the factory...that way we get a new body to go with our new sensor.

Maybe a top of the line body with weather seals etc...might be worth a few grand for a new sensor...but in most cases...probably not.

 

[Chiller]

Im pretty sure that was the forum I had an issue with as well. I posted a pic there, and the first reply i got was...."what were you thinking, if anything, when you took this photo"
Gave myself a serious headshake over that and have never gone back. I figure if you got nothing nice to say, dont say it at all.

 

[fmw]

Im pretty sure that was the forum I had an issue with as well. I posted a pic there, and the first reply i got was...."what were you thinking, if anything, when you took this photo"
Gave myself a serious headshake over that and have never gone back. I figure if you got nothing nice to say, dont say it at all.

I would have posted again - if I weren't banned, of course. I would have said "I was thinking that if I post this image on the forum I should get at least one rude remark from a brain dead internet yahoo."

 

[Alex_B]

just for your information ... no some people on that forum think i was just fwm sneaking in again

I like the reviews there, but that forum ... pathetic over there ... let us concentrate on our forum

 

[explody pup]

Get a Leica R9 plus the optional digital back.

Sure you'll spend a lot, but you'll also have it for 30 years.

Also, it's more than just the sensor that gets upgraded with each generation. It's not so much planned obsolescence as it is the rapid advance of the associated technology. A manual camera from the 60s is more or less functionally identical to a manual camera from the 80s because there was a minimal change in technology. Are you posting to this forum with a 10 year old computer? Most likely not. Did the computer manufacturers plan for your former computer to be useless with today's technology? Most likely not.

As for the forum, the larger the audience, the more anonymity, the more assholes. Makes being a moderator a pain in the ass. First thing I thougt when reading this thread is that they probably thought that you were some reoccuring troll using a different IP and banned you the first time you asked an "obvious" question. A bad call on their part, but I don't think it was malicious.

 

[fmw]

A bad call on their part, but I don't think it was malicious.

Of course it was malicious. All they had to do was email me with their suspicion or call me a troll on the forum. I would have gladly withdrawn my question or explained myself. They didn't ask, they didn't warn, they just pulled the trigger.

I used to shoot Leicas some years ago. A retiring photographer offered me his Leica systems for a very nice price and I took them off his hands. It was some years ago. I got an R6 system with 4 lenses and an M4 with three lenses. I added a couple of M6's and lenses to the rangefinder system and enjoyed using them for years. Wonderful optics. I'm not sure it's possible to put a better image on 35mm film than you can with Leicas. I wouldn't argue with your recommendation.

 

[toastydeath]

On the being banned from a forum thing.

I don't believe this applies to this individual case or the forum under question, but it's an "other side" view.

I've belonged to several "advanced topic" forums where new/low level questions get a person outright banned. The people in the forum are actively trying to keep new members out, and maintain a minimum level of discourse on the forum. And it works very well. Most technical forums see a regular "change of the guard" as old, experienced veterans get tired of answering the same question a hundred times.

In the couple forums I've belonged to where new members are actively screened and kept out, you can (not always, but can) get an amazing trove of advanced knowledge. Industry professionals and very recognizeable figures in whatever field stay around, and are very active. To the right kind of person, those forums are very well worth the time and effort necessary to be allowed to start threads and ask questions.

To draw a direct analogy to photography: It would be like having a forum ful of professional lens designers, with immediately recognizable names in photography, combined with some of the folks who write the image processors for dSLR's.

It's a rare thing to pull of, and usually the forum winds up being full of retards (as in this case). But when it works, it's an amazing resource for very advanced people.

 

[Alex_B]

I've belonged to several "advanced topic" forums where new/low level questions get a person outright banned. The people in the forum are actively trying to keep new members out, and maintain a minimum level of discourse on the forum. And it works very well.

I agree that makes totally sense... so you have a corner where experts can discuss expert topics .. but then this should be labeled so it is clear for the newbie on that forum that this is the expert's corner.

In the case discussed here however, that was not really an expert part of the forum, as you could see from the replies