Mobile photography

Discussion in 'Cell Phone Cameras & Camera Phones' started by Nugget00, May 26, 2016.

  1. PatrickSoares

    PatrickSoares TPF Noob!

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    Well, you would be surprised with how much you can learn with wrong information. Just try to watch alot of videos and your mind will start putting things in place and everything will make sense if you are patient enough :) I've done it myself and I'm far from turning pro.

    That's the beautiful thing about photography, it takes time to become good.


     
  2. PaulWog

    PaulWog No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I take issue with this statement: "Here's a hint about ISO in a digital camera: Changing it doesn't alter the sensitivity of anything."

    ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers. It, however, does affect the sensitivity of the camera to light, for all practical intents and purposes. If you skew the definition of "sensitivity" one way, then sure, we could get into a forum fight about how I am wrong. There is a certain amount of light which reaches the sensor, and the sensor gathers that light for a certain amount of time. The ISO setting in the camera determines how sensitive the camera will be in processing the light that is gathered.

    "In Digital Photography ISO measures the sensitivity of the image sensor. The same principles apply as in film photography – the lower the number the less sensitive your camera is to light and the finer the grain. HigherISO settings are generally used in darker situations to get faster shutter speeds."

    Here's a good read for a beginner: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide

    Here's the author's 2-year follow-up reply:
    "Bob, thank you for your feedback! When I wrote the above article, I knew one day someone knowledgeable would point out the mistake of how I defined ISO. I just did not think it would take almost two years :)

    The above is an over-simplified explanation of ISO, to make it easy for beginners to understand the exposure triangle. Please note that the above article is tagged for “beginners” and I make note of simplifying ISO several times. It is easier to explain ISO in “sensitivity” terms, because many photographers worked with film before and they get it right away. I don’t think REI, SOS and ISO standards would really stick with those who just picked up a digital camera…"

    We can go to Nikon's site as well (again, simplified, but useful):
    "In the case of digital cameras, ISO sensitivity is a measure of the camera's ability to capture light. Digital cameras convert the light that falls on the image sensor into electrical signals for processing. ISO sensitivity is raised by amplifying the signal." To read more: Nikon | Imaging Products | DSLR Camera Basics | ISO Sensitivity
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  3. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    That is correct. The amount of light the sensor gathers is a direct function of exposure and how light sensitive the sensor is and as you say ISO doesn't affect that.

    Camera's are not light sensitive. Film is light sensitive and sensors are light sensitive.

    That's just fantasy. ISO in digital cameras biases the meter and otherwise is a post processing procedure that simply determines a normalizing brightness level for the data the sensor records. Nothing is getting more or less sensitive.

    Yep, that guy Bob (comment) got it right and the article author was wrong. He knew he was wrong and then made the lame excuse that the over-simplification was to help beginners more easily understand the exposure triangle which is a faulty model that further confuses beginners.

    Why do people find it necessary to patronize beginners? Why hand them false analogies and fantasy models that will keep them in a state of misunderstanding? What the bleep is wrong with explaining how things work?

    Joe
     
  4. PaulWog

    PaulWog No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    "Cameras are not light sensitive... sensors are light sensitive."

    I think you're getting a little too technical. A sensor is a part of a camera. Hence, a camera is light sensitive.

    I also think you're getting a little too technical on how the word "sensitive" applies. It certainly does. The camera becomes more sensitive to light (the tool as a whole, not the sensor). I think you're just being ultra technical about how you are applying the word "sensitive".

    And to answer the question about "patronizing beginners", I would say this: Giving ultra-technical advice to beginners is fine, but I wouldn't just dismiss the information in such a confusing fashion. I see this sort of stuff happen a lot on forums and elsewhere. An example of something frustrating is when someone says "A crop sensor doesn't get any more reach. It just has more pixels in a smaller area." And yet, the end result is more detail in the cropped area, hence more reach. I forget the other arguments that bug me, but the problem is that not enough is being stipulated. The word "sensitive" is too short, and means too many things, and requires a phrase in its place.
     
  5. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    And I think you're making way too much stuff up. You're also disagreeing with yourself which is kind of odd. You did say, "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers." Well a sensor is part of a camera. Hence a camera behaves like a sensor and as you correctly noted, "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers." Must apply to the camera too.

    So even if I were to acknowledge such nonsense and grant you that a camera is light sensitive, ISO still has no effect on the camera's light sensitivity. The light sensitivity of a digital sensor (therefore digital camera) is fixed in manufacture and can not be changed. Here's a reference for that if you need one: www.Clarkvision.com: ISO and Digital Cameras, ISO Myths And of course we can continue to use you as a reference: "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers."

    Ultra technical?!! This is not, as they say, rocket science. Explain to me how a digital camera becomes more sensitive to light. When you raise the ISO on a digital camera does the camera become more capable of reaching into the shadows and recording darker information that it couldn't record at a lower ISO?

    Who's dismissing what in a confusing fashion? I though I did a reasonable job earlier in the thread with this explanation:

    If I raise the ISO value on my camera it has no effect on the sensor and does not in any way change the light sensitivity of the sensor. Changing the ISO does two things: 1. It puts a spin on the light meter and causes the meter to calculate different exposure parameters. So if for example my meter had calculated 1/100 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture with the ISO at 200 then with the ISO at 800 it might recalculate those parameters as 1/400 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture. The faster shutter speed will then expose the sensor to less light.
    2. Then ISO's 2nd function kicks in. This function is strictly a post processing function. It is applied via the camera's electronics and software after the photo has been taken. There are different ways that different cameras handle this so I can't specifically describe one way fits all but basically the camera electronics and software brighten up the underexposed image that the sensor recorded.


    Joe

     
  6. PaulWog

    PaulWog No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    There's no point in arguing with someone like you.
     
  7. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Someone like me! :(

    Well then how about hard proof:
    DSCF5641.RAF
    DSCF5642.RAF
    There's two raw files that prove I'm correct. If you need help interpreting them just ask.

    There you go. With hard facts providing proof you don't have to worry about arguing with someone like me.

    Joe
     
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  8. TheLibrarian

    TheLibrarian TPF Noob!

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    Dont confuse the poor kid/ person. Theres plenty of bad info and some people dwell on it or never learn better themselves. I'm out here talking about stuff idk 100% trying to learn. I think whats suggested in the video might not be the inner science of the camera but is practical application. Fiddling with the ISO will allow you to increase your shutter speed when you must or make things brighter by another means than shutter speed and aperture. How it does that we can just assume is magic unless we find a calm collected nice person who will explain it to us.

    For me I might use it (increase it) with sports where I want fast shutter speed but have light issues. I think was the point of the youtube video. I also tried using it to take pictures of stars or at night. Made a pitch black night look like daytime though more than a bit grainy and i used too much. Simple explanation is it makes things brighter at the cost of clarity or resolution. Some say they get crisp images at higher ISO.

    All this about ISO you wanted a bag of tricks, we can't get this right. Generally keep it as low as it will go now unless thats the only way to adjust the shutter speed on whatever youre using and you have some desire to adjust your shutter speed or if you really want to adjust your ISO. Now you have to just to see what it does.

    I'm trying to use my mobile more and i just got my first dslr. Its not the camera its the samurai, Ive seen a few regular people take nicer stuff with their phones than I do so i'm determined. Think they may have the 6s though if that makes a difference.
     
  9. bribrius

    bribrius Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    seen some really nice and interesting phone pics often better than people are taking with dslrs
     
  10. abhiwar

    abhiwar TPF Noob!

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    Wonderful, thanks for explaining ISO for people like me who was misinformed . So this is the reason why with all cameras with same APS-C size censors have different level of low light performance.
     
  11. table1349

    table1349 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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