My first wedding as 2nd shooter recap

[cgipson1]

Bracketing exposure is not the answer. It needs to be right. Period. Either know enough to do it right or don't do it at all. Choosing a crutch like bracketing in the hopes that at least one is right is ridiculous.

Learn it...that way you won't have to worry about things like bracketing and when you see that special 'moment' develop in front of you, you won't have to worry about where you are at in your bracketing sequence.

Are you talking to me, or Ernicus? I was talking a flash BRACKET.. as in hardware! Not Flash Bracketing.... (Although Ernicus did mention that above I think!) and I do agree with you there.. flash bracketing doesn't work well at a wedding or other events...

One of the people I shoot with does use a flash bracket. I do not and don't personally care to. I can see where the confusion occured.

In any case, the only time a shadow would change is if the flash is being used directly, which it should never be. That type of bracket is also a crutch.

Since when is using a tool that improves your lighting a crutch? LOL! So is doing something in post a crutch too? How about flashes.. they must be a crutch also!

 

[shefjr]

OP, thanks for sharing your story. I give you a lot of credit for attempting a wedding shoot with such little experience with your new gear. Wedding photography for me would be far too stressful. I don't think I would ever attempt it because it doesn't sound fun. Wedding photographers are impressive adaptive photogs all of which I am not. Lol

 

[RyanLilly]

Whether or not you think the bracket is a crutch, I have heard good things about the Press T; its a smaller version of the Pro T. However useful many of these tools can be there are usually trade-offs. Adding a flash bracket, external battery, and softbox or bouncer, can make for a clumsy, cumbersome, contraption. Sometimes simpler easier. I did some shots for a band and a couple of dancers at a bar once(just for fun), that was completely painted flat black, floor to ceiling. The only thing I could do was use direct flash(mortal sin, I know) and drag the shutter Like it was nobody's business.
The right tool and skills for one situation could be completely useless in another. Not all receptions can be in a ballroom with 15' white ceilings. Sometimes a bracket might help, sometimes a strobe in the corner of the room may be just the right trick. There are defiantly wrong was to do things, but many, many right ways, it just depends on who you ask.

 

[Ernicus]

I would like to publicly thank Tyler for helping me out tonight.

I have talked to many of you via PM and I thank you too. So I hope this does not overshadow the help all of you have given me.

I like to work on things until they click. Tyler talked with me a bit over the web, gave me an exercise to do here in the house, and after doing so, explained real world application of it. It all clicked at that point. What all of those who had been helping me and what he said all fell into place. I look at my photos from last night and I can now point out in each one where I failed and more importantly....why.

Thanks Tyler.


*note*
I can now see even more what a douche the other photog was, had he taken 5 minutes to ask how I was doing and if I needed any help, he could have helped me, as I am sure many of you here could have were we in person shooting. So another point to being second. You're only going to "learn" what to actually do and improve on if you are with a good experienced photog. So if you are considering starting in this bizz and want to be a 2nd shooter, be selective. I wasn't. I'm not hurt from it as far as reputation, so I'll survive. I damn sure wasn't helped from it though, other than the what nots I've taken away from the experience.

 

[o hey tyler]

I would like to publicly thank Tyler for helping me out tonight.

I have talked to many of you via PM and I thank you too. So I hope this does not overshadow the help all of you have given me.

I like to work on things until they click. Tyler talked with me a bit over the web, gave me an exercise to do here in the house, and after doing so, explained real world application of it. It all clicked at that point. What all of those who had been helping me and what he said all fell into place. I look at my photos from last night and I can now point out in each one where I failed and more importantly....why.

Thanks Tyler.


*note*
I can now see even more what a douche the other photog was, had he taken 5 minutes to ask how I was doing and if I needed any help, he could have helped me, as I am sure many of you here could have were we in person shooting. So another point to being second. You're only going to "learn" what to actually do and improve on if you are with a good experienced photog. So if you are considering starting in this bizz and want to be a 2nd shooter, be selective. I wasn't. I'm not hurt from it as far as reputation, so I'll survive. I damn sure wasn't helped from it though, other than the what nots I've taken away from the experience.

Anything I can do to help, bud! :thumbup:

It takes some cojones to shoot a wedding, even as a second shooter. I commend your willingness to try, and combat a douchey primary shooter with less equipment than you. Even if you weren't satisfied with your shots like you thought you would be, you still made it through the night in once piece. Pat yourself on the back!

 

[rokvi]

Thanks Ernicus, for letting us in on your experience. It sounds to me like the main photog uses seconds in a hope that they will be inexperienced and something for the client to compare. Throwing out the "bringing out the big boy" remark was probably done in the hope that you'd put it away. At least you did learn from it though.

 

[Ernicus]

Thanks Ernicus, for letting us in on your experience. It sounds to me like the main photog uses seconds in a hope that they will be inexperienced and something for the client to compare. Throwing out the "bringing out the big boy" remark was probably done in the hope that you'd put it away. At least you did learn from it though.

He'd rather not shoot with seconds at all, he feels he doesn't need them.

I definitely had him out geared, too bad I was inexperienced, I really could have come out a winner had I known what to do. lol.

 

[Rwsphotos]

The fact that you came way with the what not to do knowledge is as important as every thing else. Yes if you plan to second shoot be selective about who you work with. Your success as a second depends as much on your ability as it does on the primary shooter being willing to work with you. Its a shame he wasn't but you will over come his failure to teach and be better off for it. Been there done that know the experience.

 

[12sndsgood]

Thanks Ernicus, for letting us in on your experience. It sounds to me like the main photog uses seconds in a hope that they will be inexperienced and something for the client to compare. Throwing out the "bringing out the big boy" remark was probably done in the hope that you'd put it away. At least you did learn from it though.

He'd rather not shoot with seconds at all, he feels he doesn't need them.

I definitely had him out geared, too bad I was inexperienced, I really could have come out a winner had I known what to do. lol.

had him outgeared and by hearing how he was firing from the hip and not bothering to use the viewfinder probalaby have out experienced. I had a feeling he would be that type of person. Its sad that your there to help him out and he has to act the way he did, regardless if he can do the job or not two people shooting means a better chance at getting more great shots and making the client more happy. Even though you considered this a failure I would cal it more of a success, You seem to be learning a lot from the situation and that will help you for the next time. If it was a succsess you likely would not have learned as much as you are. I need to post up my wedding failure as well here lol.

 

[skiboarder72]

Wedding photographers are impressive adaptive photogs all of which I am not. Lol

Keep talking :heart:

 

[Gaqua77]

Its okk.... there is a first time for everyone. Everyone has to do something first time in their life. Well done now you are not going to be called as a beginner, next time when you will take wedding shots

 

[pgriz]

Ernicus, I am impressed. The willingness to discuss one's shortcomings (whatever the reason and cause) in a public forum, and to extract from the experience the learning lessons is a mark of a great deal of maturity and humility. And to share this so that others can learn, is very generous (and brave!) on your part.

I have taken part in many weddings, and shot quite a few as the "family photographer". All of the weddings had professional photographers (and seconds) doing their thing, and it has always been interesting to talk to them. The most professional were well-equipped (two cameras each shooter, flashes with external battery packs, cameras with good high-ISO performance, lenses with f/2.8 or better maximum apertures, etc.), and their shooting approaches were well-structured and they had their key spots picked. The less professional often had only one camera each, and were usually running after the action. Many of the venues were difficult and those in churches were almost always without flash. Crowd control was a big difference between the "good" pros and the "semi-pros" - the good ones had all the key shots choreographed and directed the parties through the set pieces rather efficiently. The "semi-pros" were scouting out the shooting locations for the group shots and the individual shots during the wedding event - with hit-and-miss results.

When talking to these photographers, their attitude also distinguished the seasoned pros from the semis. The good ones were pretty relaxed and were quite willing to discuss what they were doing and how. Their flow was relaxed up to the key moments, when they were all business, and in between the key moments, they would kinda step back and observe. The "semi-pros" were rather standoffish and often brushed me off with "sorry, I'm busy". I was OK with that, but what I observed is that they were just hanging around looking for opportunities to do the snaps. It was also clear that the good ones did a lot of preparation beforehand, and had obviously scouted out the shooting locations and had discussed with the bridal party the sequence of shots.

Of the equipment discussion that preceded my post, some used brackets, most did not. The pros used bounce flash a lot, some with diffusers, most not. The semi-pros never had flash brackets, and often shot direct flash.

Ultimately, the difference seems to be that the real pros were prepared, both with the right equipment for the job (which they knew how to use), and with the preparation and sequencing of shots.

May your next wedding shooting experience be with a good professional who can give you clear instructions and even more importantly, show by example how to do these events.

 

[Derrel]

1) Buy a GOOD flash bracket and learn how to use it. Not one of these e-Bay cheapies.

2)DIY a Norman round reflector and diffuser to go with your flash for the times when bounce flash is out of the question, and you can shoot ON-camera flash that looks absolutely beautiful, and will not give you redeye, ever, even from as far away as 100 feet. PM me for details if you're interested.

3) WOW...just "wow" Good write-up...what a surreal experience that day must have been. Well-written, informative, illustrative, tragi-comic.

4) Again, Wow! zOMG!

 

[Mach0]

I'm not sure what flash you have or your settings but something that I would recommend in bouncing flash is to set it in manual mode. You can zoom the flash better and control the the power level. That should help when you bounce. Some people like ttl- but the minute you change settings the flash will change. Manual will bring more consistency.

 

[Ernicus]

Sorry for not updating, been crazy busy. thanks to those who responded and thanks pgriz and darrel...I appreciate your comments.

mach, I was full TTL that day, and since then I took a flash class here locally and picked up a few more pointers...one was using manual vs ttl...so tip echoed.

Still no pics to update, sorry, the douchebag has not submitted, or they have not finished editing his shots, so there is still no release on them, so I can't post publicly yet. Once I can, I will.

For all those who chimed in with help, I have another thread of a pinup shoot tomorrow I am going to and I'd love some adive/tips there. This time I will not be flying solo, Noel, the pro photog who teaches at my work is the one who invited me, so I'll have direction and help. Yay! lol.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...oot-needed-first-time-shooting-pro-model.html