Need some business pointers please!

[hunter102]

I'm new here, so hi! My name is Emily and I have been taking photos for about 7 years. I now have a smallish (but growing) photography business but have a few issues here and there that I would like some insight about. I am mainly self taught, but I do pretty well I think with the type of clients and photography that I do.

Some basics - I shoot with a Canon Mark III camera either a 85mm, 50mm or 70-200s (all 1.2 aperture) depending on what I am taking photos of. I shoot in raw and edit primarily with Lightroom, but use Photoshop as needed. I mainly shoot engagements, families, newborns, holidays, and Seniors.

Here are some issues I have been struggling with (mostly with clients and PR)

1. When I am out with a client and shooting, some clients can "take control" of the photo shoot with their ideas. Sometimes, they bring awesome props and have great ideas and the shoot goes great! Other times, the client will have some ideas that are a bit cheesy and don't understand lighting/backgrounds and how I use my lenses and what they can pick up and see. Sometimes, when those sessions are over and I look at the photos - most of their creative ideas are not something I want to put my name on, edit and publish. This only happens once in a while, but I had a shoot a few days ago and just sat down to edit their pictures and they are "meh" at best (in my opinion). For example, the client wanted to take a picture of each of her grandchildren on top of a ladder at a specific spot with some fall leaves in the background. I try to steer clients toward a better pose, and that usually works, but you get those that are super insistent! I took the photo and have a very back-lit up the nose shot of each kid looking down on me. Not great. Another photo from the day that the entire family insisted on was one of them walking down the road with the grandparents in front, kids behind, and grandkids again behind them. Shooting with my 85mm, even with a high aperture, gave a lot of blur on either the subjects in the back or front and the picture isn't good. But, they specifically requested a copy of both of these... which leads me to....

2. When a client receives their photos and request additional edits, do you give them to them or charge? In my business, I charge by the number of edits a client wants (because that is were a bulk of my time is spent) and they can either purchase 10, 20 or 30 and then order prints from there through my site (all handled by a third party) or download them digitally. Sometimes, a client will get their 10 edits and then ask "Well, what about this pose? I really wanted one of XXX pose!" If those poses aren't up to the standards of your usual work, what do you do? Give them that photo anyway, or just tell them no, explaining it wasn't good? I don't have time to sit down with the client and let them choose their photos themselves, and my prices reflect that. Suggestions?

That's my only two issues I've been running into recently, and any insight on a professional and nice way to handle those situations would be great! I'm sure there is an easy fix, but above all - I want my client to get the photos they want! No one likes to pay for a service and then be told "NO" but some things I do want to say NO about!!!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, well not a professional photographer myself so take this for what it's worth. When the client wants some cheesy shots that your pretty sure won't work, if it were me I'd go ahead and agree to take the cheesy shots but in return they also have to take some shots doing it your way. Take both - that way you can show them both and let them make the final decision. But you know what, if in the end the client wants to order cheese I say sell them cheese. It's their money, so I figure if that's what floats their boat I'm ok with that. What the final shots look like won't impact your business nearly as much as a happy or unhappy client will. A happy client will refer others to you and come back again, and unhappy client will tell their friends, "Oh don't hire them, they are difficult to work with"

Again, don't make my living as a photographer, but that would be my recommendation.

 

[tirediron]

Rule #1: NO ONE sees the bad ones.

Rule #2: I decide what's good and bad.

"Creative" clients can be challenge. If I have someone who has a specific idea in mind or wants to use a specific prop that I don't think will work very well, I explain to them why I don't think it will work, and if they still insist, I tell them I will shoot it, but I can't promise that it will produce an image which meets my quality standard.


I include 'X' minimum images per session (the number increases with the price point). After I shoot the session, I import the whole session into Lightroom, bin the dogs, and flad those that I am happy with, and create a client gallery. I e-mail them with a link and tell them to pick however many files their session fee entitles them too. If they want extras, it's $35/file. I normally add at least one extra as a 'bonus' (I'm a firm believer in under-promise and over-deliver).

 

[Light Guru]

When I am out with a client and shooting, some clients can "take control" of the photo shoot with their ideas. Sometimes, they bring awesome props and have great ideas and the shoot goes great! Other times, the client will have some ideas that are a bit cheesy and don't understand lighting/backgrounds and how I use my lenses and what they can pick up and see.

This should all be discussed with the client before you go "out" shooting.

When a client receives their photos and request additional edits, do you give them to them or charge?

This needs to be spelled out in your contract with the client. You do have a contract that you use right?

I would specify a set number of images to be delivered in your contract and x number of re edits. Then put in the contract that additional re edits will be x amount.

 

[hunter102]

Can you explain how the Lightroom gallery works? I have wanted to find a time and cost effective way to let the clients pick their unedited images for me to edit, but haven't found anything that works for everyone yet. I live in a very small town and GOOD internet access is hard to come by (for me as well as some clients!) And, I don't want to wait 3-4 days or a week for my clients to pick their images before I start to edit them. Right now, I have about a week turn around time on my edits and I get A LOT of clients because I turn out edits fast and offer overnight editing (for an extra charge.)

 

[tirediron]

When I am out with a client and shooting, some clients can "take control" of the photo shoot with their ideas. Sometimes, they bring awesome props and have great ideas and the shoot goes great! Other times, the client will have some ideas that are a bit cheesy and don't understand lighting/backgrounds and how I use my lenses and what they can pick up and see.

This should all be discussed with the client before you go "out" shooting.

When a client receives their photos and request additional edits, do you give them to them or charge?

This needs to be spelled out in your contract with the client. You do have a contract that you use right?

I would specify a set number of images to be delivered in your contract and x number of re edits. Then put in the contract that additional re edits will be x amount.

Thanks for adding the blindingly obvious which I completely over-looked! :er:

 

[hunter102]

Yes, I do have a contract but it says that an extra 10 edits is XX amount, but nothing about a single edit. I guess I should add that in? Should I apply a price point to an extra or two, or just let it be free within a certain time period (say, one week?) It also states in the contract that if they want a certain shot, they should let that known DURING the session - but sometimes those shots don't turn out and I am torn about including them.

 

[tirediron]

Can you explain how the Lightroom gallery works? I have wanted to find a time and cost effective way to let the clients pick their unedited images for me to edit, but haven't found anything that works for everyone yet. I live in a very small town and GOOD internet access is hard to come by (for me as well as some clients!) And, I don't want to wait 3-4 days or a week for my clients to pick their images before I start to edit them. Right now, I have about a week turn around time on my edits and I get A LOT of clients because I turn out edits fast and offer overnight editing (for an extra charge.)

The web module in Lightroom allows you to create custom image galleries and even has a built-in FTP client to upload them, but you should NEVER publish completely unprocessed images. Everything that goes in one of my client galleries is WB corrected, leveled, and checked for exposure. However, if you have poor Internet access, that's actually a HUGE bonus, that's the perfect excuse to have everything on your laptop or tablet and take it to the client's home; in-home proofing almost always generates increased sales because you can talk each image up!

 

[tirediron]

Yes, I do have a contract but it says that an extra 10 edits is XX amount, but nothing about a single edit. I guess I should add that in?

YES!!!! Price PER image, not in bulk. Change that ASAP! It's MUCH easier to sell ten $1.00 items over a two hour proofing session than one $10.00 item!

It also states in the contract that if they want a certain shot, they should let that known DURING the session - but sometimes those shots don't turn out and I am torn about including them.

Change this too. Special requests must be discussed beforehand!!! That's what your pre-session client meeting is for. NEVER go in cold! This is also the time to explain why an image may or may not work, and while you can't promise anything, you will do your best.

 

[hunter102]

I don't think that would really work for me - I only charge by the edits and then they can order prints. For example...

10 edits are $XXX
20 edits are $XXX
30 edits are $XXX

The client gets an hour session included in the edits package they choose.

Right now, my sale goes like this - Client books an hour session and lets me know how many edits they want. I take the photos and pick (myself) the best 10, 20 or 30 from that session and upload the edited images to an online album. They can then order prints or digital downloads (full resolution.) I work a part time (30 hours per week) real job and live in a SUPER rural place, so some of my clients drive from 30 minutes to an hour away. My prices are pretty low considering the economy here, so if I were to drive after the session to clients houses I would probably need to charge a lot more, and my turnaround time would increase since I don't really have full days to be out and about driving to clients homes.

I hope, one day, when I graduate college, this will be my full time job and I can begin to do something like that!

My pre-session client meetings are usually the day of the session - like I said, this isn't my full time job but one day I hope to have enough time to devote to photography to "do it right!" But, I will make sure to start discussing that beforehand!

 

[tirediron]

I don't think that would really work for me - I only charge by the edits and then they can order prints. For example...

10 edits are $XXX
20 edits are $XXX
30 edits are $XXX

The client gets an hour session included in the edits package they choose.

Right now, my sale goes like this - Client books an hour session and lets me know how many edits they want. I take the photos and pick (myself) the best 10, 20 or 30 from that session and upload the edited images to an online album. They can then order prints or digital downloads (full resolution.) I work a part time (30 hours per week) real job and live in a SUPER rural place, so some of my clients drive from 30 minutes to an hour away. My prices are pretty low considering the economy here, so if I were to drive after the session to clients houses I would probably need to charge a lot more, and my turnaround time would increase since I don't really have full days to be out and about driving to clients homes.

I hope, one day, when I graduate college, this will be my full time job and I can begin to do something like that!

My pre-session client meetings are usually the day of the session - like I said, this isn't my full time job but one day I hope to have enough time to devote to photography to "do it right!" But, I will make sure to start discussing that beforehand!

Start off the way you intend to continue unless you plan on moving. You can make it work, but it will take a little more time. Client's too far away to drive to a meeting? Try that little gizmo that Mr. Bell invented, it still works very well!

 

[hunter102]

Haha yes we do meetings over the phone but can't proof photos! I may try to lightroom gallery on a few guinea pigs!!

What do you do about the creative and controlling clients? Just address that in the meeting?

 

[kathyt]

This can and should be solved by your consultation, and taking control of the photo shoot. I have never had this problem, because they know what to expect when they are getting a photo session with me. I rarely do props, (I am talking pretty much never,) I shoot candidly, and they MUST, MUST, MUST look through my style of shooting and work BEFORE scheduling with me. I explain very clearly how the session with go, what I will/WON'T be doing, and what I expect of them. I do just enough posing to get some uniformity, but the rest is fair game. Take charge of your business, and set the bar high. Once you do that then I promise you will set yourself apart. This is of coarse if you have all your other ducks in a row. Good luck.

 

[hunter102]

Thanks! I don't like too many props either, and try to stray away from them. I will try and post some of my recent stuff below.

 

[hunter102]

Here is some of my recent stuff - I in no way claim to be a professional and I know I need to learn A LOT but I see improvements each year looking back at my photos so I am happy!














These are just from the past weekend but I have more I can post if anyone would like to take a look!