Novice attempting product photography

[gossamer]

Nikon Speedlights spin around 180 degrees for a reason. They have a built in slave system. You just have to make sure the sensor is pointed towards the controlling flash. There is a description in your manual at what angle they are effective.

Cheap wireless radio triggers only trip light set in manual mode. The more expensive ones actually communicate and use i-ttl

My concern was with the sensor being covered by an umbrella, etc. Is that not enough to be a concern?

With product shots, you can just set any flash with an optical trigger on manual. Once you have the settings you like, you just leave them there for every shot. Even $70 cheap china lights work just fine this way. When using optical, they just go off when sensing a bright flash.

Perhaps I should post a separate question regarding lighting. I realize the cheap lights will go off when sensing a bright light, but also didn't want to have to buy lights twice. If there is significant advantage to the Nikon CLS for this and portraits, then I'd invest in that. I was just unsure about communication difficulties when the lights were obscured by an unbrella or other light modifier. Buying a capable wireless system for the SB700s is a completely different proposition $$$$$

Those lights from Amazon will be fairly close, but for product shots that will not matter. If they just want items on the table, that light kit from amazon will be just fine.

Do you mean close to the subject?

 

[astroNikon]

I use Yongnuo 622N TX Radio controller and Yongnuo 622N triggers for my SB700s and SB800s.
inexpensive to get into and great triggers.

Though when battery life starts creeping down low they have inconsistent response.

 

[DGMPhotography]

don't be afraid of being further back and using your longer lens. That will help your object's DOF. With wireless triggers you don't have to worry about that, assuming you have them.

Also, don't expect their "setup" to actually be functional, or clean. or even useable.

I've now spoken with the owner, and she wants it very simple. I definitely don't want to expect anything from their existing setup - she told me they have a table with a white foam board to put on top of it. She wants it to match their existing pictures, and from what I've seen, they have no depth. They're completely flat. I've included one of their existing pictures.

I have some money in the budget for lights, and was anticipating buying a few speedlights for portraits. Would you consider two SB700s with my existing on-camera SB700 along with wireless triggers. However, I stopped because I wasn't sure if they would work successfully when in umbrellas or an ezbox?

I also had an opportunity to purchase two used SB700s for $500, but didn't know if that was a good deal - what do people think about buying used flashes? There's no way to tell how long they've been in use. I've also considered Yongnuo, but isn't Nikon's CLS better?

I was previously looking to purchase the following:
- Manfrotto 1004BAC 144-Inch Air Cushioned Aluminum Master Light Stand with 4 Sections and 3 Risers, 3-Pack
- 2 Manfrotto 026 Swivel Lite-Tite Umbrella Adapter
- 2 Lastolite LL LS2462M2 Ezybox M2 Hotshoe Kit-24-Inch X 24-Inch

This also looked to be an amazing deal to get started.
Amazon.com : Emart 600W Photography Photo Video Portrait Studio Day Light Umbrella Continuous Lighting Kit : Camera & Photo

Please do not post images to which you do not hold rights. You may post links.

Just get Yongnuo flashes and use all the extra money to buy more lenses.

 

[benhasajeep]

Nikon Speedlights spin around 180 degrees for a reason. They have a built in slave system. You just have to make sure the sensor is pointed towards the controlling flash.

My concern was with the sensor being covered by an umbrella, etc. Is that not enough to be a concern?



Perhaps I should post a separate question regarding lighting. I realize the cheap lights will go off when sensing a bright light, but also didn't want to have to buy lights twice. If there is significant advantage to the Nikon CLS for this and portraits, then I'd invest in that. I was just unsure about communication difficulties when the lights were obscured by an unbrella or other light modifier. Buying a capable wireless system for the SB700s is a completely different proposition $$$$$



Do you mean close to the subject?

Your flash / umbrella should be adjusted to the optical sensor will be exposed to the controlling flash. You will need a stand and flash / umbrella head. You can adjust the umbrella shaft in and out of the mount to change it's distance from the flash head. With cheaper stands you have to watch how far out the umbrella is Or make sure the legs are set so it's stable.

If your going to do more and more photo shoots in the future. The SB700's will be a good choice. Then you just need stands. You might experiment as you may not need any umbrellas. Since they want simple flat work, just putting on the included diffuser dome might work ok. Amazon has hot shoe flash / umbrella brackets anywhere from $6 ea and up. Umbrellas are not that much though.

 

[DGMPhotography]

If your going to do more and more photo shoots in the future. The SB700's will be a good choice.

I've been shooting for 7 years and have never needed anything more than my Yongnuos. But ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference and what you're willing and able to make work.

 

[benhasajeep]

If your going to do more and more photo shoots in the future. The SB700's will be a good choice.

I've been shooting for 7 years and have never needed anything more than my Yongnuos. But ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference and what you're willing and able to make work.

I actually don't disagree with you. Though I don't own any, I have read many posts on Strobists praising them. I myself have a load of Nikons from SB25's on up. In total I have 17 Nikon speedlights about 1/2 of them purchased used. Now only the newer 600's, 700's, and 900's that I have use CLS. For the most part I used radio triggers and the lights in manual.

As for longevity. Only 1 purchased new SB600 has failed me so far. If I needed more lights, I would probably seriously look into Yongnuos along with more used Nikons.

In this case though the OP specifically has mentioned several times they were interseted in SB700's and asked if they would work. So, to me the correct answer to him would be yes. They are fine lights and would do the job plus more.

 

[table1349]

A couple of sets of these will make your life much easier. Yongnuo RF-603N II Wireless Flash Trigger Kit RF-603II N3 B&H They are cheap, but pretty reliable.

You will also want a flash meter to save time, lots of time. Something like this would do the job. Sekonic L-308S-U Flashmate Light Meter 401-307 B&H Photo Video

 

[gossamer]

In this case though the OP specifically has mentioned several times they were interseted in SB700's and asked if they would work. So, to me the correct answer to him would be yes. They are fine lights and would do the job plus more.

I think part of the problem is my lack of familiarity with Nikon's CLS and its limitations. I also had an opportunity (not sure it even still exists) to purchase two used SB700s for $500, and wasn't sure if used flashes was generally a good idea and more specifically if it was a good deal.

The Yongnuo RF-603Ns look like a good product, and the price is right. If I intend to have two off-camera flashes as well as my SB700 on camera, I assume I would need a total of three of these? Also, a few questions:

- It doesn't support iTTL. Isn't this something I'm going to need?
- It only supports up to 1/320th. I also have auto-fp high-speed sync enabled. In a setting such as this, taking pictures in a warehouse, I don't see it being necessary, is this not a problem otherwise?

I've looked at the Yongnuo product line, and I'm very confused by it. I've also been looking at the YN622N, as it supports iTTL and high-speed sync.

If I just bought two more SB700s to go with the one I have, would I be able to use them without any additional hardware, as long as the flashes are all within line-of-sight of each other? My concern was with a setup where the flashes either were obstructed by modifiers or an angle that prevents the signal from reaching the other flashes...

 

[astroNikon]

Start setting up a mock table at home. And start figuring this out in comparison to the quality of images they had before.

Personally, I don't use an on-camera flash. A on-camera flash may provide a direct reflection to your sensor which you'll probably not want. It goes down to reflecting light away from the sensor at angles. A direct light, if you've ever noticed "red eye" is from that problem.

This is one of the best books in order to learn about light and reflection and angles.
Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books

So start practicing and providing images for C&C and you'll get led quickly in the proper setup for your equipment.

 

[Derrel]

A longer lens length will give a narrower angle of view behind the products, making for easier background control than if a short lens were used. I would avoid using the short end of the 24-70mm lens, and would stick to the 60mm to 70mm end, or use their Tamron 90mm macro lens, and shoot from a bit farther away than if you were using a 50mm or something short like that.

A short lens can/could/might created some distortion of the apparent size of the objects from near to far, especially at close distances! You also need to watch the placement of the camera, to avoid unwanted shape distortion or foreshortening (exaggerated on-sensor size of closer-up parts of a subject). Definitely, try to keep the camera set up at five to six feet or so. Avoid having the lights "too close" as well!

If you have the lights "too close" to the background, or to the subject, the rate of fall-off in light intensity across even a run of a few inches will be ***exceptionally steep**!; this is due to the Inverse Square Law, and the way the rate of fall-off of light's intensity is extremely rapid at close distances; as the distance from the light to the subject or to the background grows longer, the rate of fall-off in intensity slows wayyyyyyyy down.

If you run into problems with the backdrop or foreground lighting, consider moving the lights a bit, and using slower or faster shutter speeds with continuous lighting, to compensate. If using flash, use whatever f/stop you need (like f/11 or f/16) to get the right depth of field, and use stronger or weaker flash settings, or change uo the ISO level, to fine-tunbe the exposure.

Be aware that in many close-up shooting scenarios, with continuos lighting, f/16 or f/11 at 3 to 5 seconds will be "the needed exposure". Do not be afraid to do self-timer tripped shots with sloooow shutter speeds, if needed!

For a beginner, I actually think continuous lights would be easier to work with!

 

[gossamer]

A longer lens length will give a narrower angle of view behind the products, making for easier background control than if a short lens were used. I would avoid using the short end of the 24-70mm lens, and would stick to the 60mm to 70mm end, or use their Tamron 90mm macro lens, and shoot from a bit farther away than if you were using a 50mm or something short like that.

Thank you, Derrel, I'll be sure to step back and use the longer focal lengths.

If you run into problems with the backdrop or foreground lighting, consider moving the lights a bit, and using slower or faster shutter speeds with continuous lighting, to compensate. If using flash, use whatever f/stop you need (like f/11 or f/16) to get the right depth of field, and use stronger or weaker flash settings, or change uo the ISO level, to fine-tunbe the exposure.

My concern is that she mentioned there's a huge window in the same room. If you saw the sample image I posted, it's completely flat. No shadows, no depth.

Be aware that in many close-up shooting scenarios, with continuos lighting, f/16 or f/11 at 3 to 5 seconds will be "the needed exposure". Do not be afraid to do self-timer tripped shots with sloooow shutter speeds, if needed!

I wasn't expecting that. Three to five seconds? I'm anticipating using a remote trigger and a tripod, but would expect ISO100 and 1/250th would be all I need, no?

For a beginner, I actually think continuous lights would be easier to work with!

I agree, partly because I can't figure out how the communications between speedlights work. Is a transmitter needed on the SB700 (SU-800?) or is one on-camera already able to trigger two remote SB700s without any further equipment (Yongnuo 622N TX Radio controller and Yongnuo 622N triggers)?

I think I'd like to buy at least two softboxes (Amazon.com: Neewer 700W Professional Photography 24x24 inches/60x60 centimeters Softbox with E27 Socket Light Lighting Kit: Electronics) then build a product table with a white sweep. Maybe something like this:
https://www.adorama.com/jtpt.html

tirediron recommending buying/making a product table in another comment.
Novice attempting product photography

I was also thinking of a square frame that would hold a larger white backdrop where I could put a small table underneath it to place the products on top of.
Amazon.com : Femonden 6.5ft X 10ft/2M X 3M Photography Photo Video Studio Backdrop Background Kit for Portrait and Video Shooting(White, Black) : Camera & Photo

Part of my concern is that the products are like leashes and chew toys which aren't going to stand up on their own. Would I be better off if the camera was on a tripod above the subject? Maybe implement the product table and the tripod gear necessary for the camera to be above the subject on the table?

I want to have to do as little post-processing as possible, as there's going to be ~160 different products.

 

[rosh4u]

We are living in the era where to ask for a budget is important before anything else as we work as so we expect proper revert for the same. Post processing is always included in your charge so make sure when you give budget. By signing the agreement, there will be no misunderstanding about usage and prices that has been fixed. So its better to sign an agreement.

24-70mm is completely suitable for this task as per my knowledge.

 

[Derrel]

If you are using continuously-on lights (incandescent, flourescent, LED, etc...) then 1/250 second will NOT be bright enough (will be too briwef an exposure, images will be black frames) at any of the smaller /stops like f.8 or f/11 or f/16.

For product shots made at f/11, or f/13, or f/16 (to ensure good depth of field), with most continuously-on types of lights, the exposure time at ISO 100 will typically range from around 1 second, and run up to as long a time interval as perhaps three or four seconds.

With electronic FLASH....then yeah, 1/250 second X-sync speed on the shutter, lens at f/11or f/13 or f/16, and a moderately-powwerful flash pop, and you ought to be good at ISO 100.

 

[gossamer]

Ah, thank you for that clarification.

Can you recommend a light table setup that's reasonably priced? I've only been able to find ones that are really cheap or absurdly expensive. Adorama has very few which aren't backordered.

I thought this one was good, but it's backordered, and perhaps a bit expensive.
https://www.adorama.com/jtpt.html

Maybe a tent or lightbox with something to suspend the dog toys would be more appropriate?

I feel like once I settle on this, I can figure out which lights for it would be best.

 

[tirediron]

Make your own. Here's a quicky set-up I put together for a demonstration a while back. Roll of white seamless suspended by a C-stand, a $25, 4' folding trestle-table, and a couple of lights. Notice the white tube which elevates the "product". What little of it is visible in the final image is quickly cloned out.