RAW Question?

[kidchill]

Let me see if I got this right....

If I want "no to almost no loss" (and this is what I do) I shoot RAW, set what I want, then saveas TIFF, and then if I want more editing I do it in CS3 and save it as TIFF (so there's no compression) and then when I want to internet post I resize, re-quality, and save as JPG. My only true loss of data should be at the TIF to JPG point, correct? 'Cause if there's loss of data at the RAW to TIFF (not counting the data I threw away by editing...because that's what I wanted to do!!) then RAW is useless.

And if I shoot JPG, I just make my changes, saveas TIF and then get it webready as JPG just to avoid double saving in JPG format. If I see something I don't like after posting, then I still have my TIF to mess with and I'm not JPG to TIF to JPG to TIF....You get the idea....

This is how I do it, and think it works. Maybe this will also help out the others with file format questions...Unless I'm totally wrong on my thinking....Then we're all screwed!!

 

[yeti]

Let me see if I got this right....

If I want "no to almost no loss" (and this is what I do) I shoot RAW, set what I want, then saveas TIFF, and then if I want more editing I do it in CS3 and save it as TIFF (so there's no compression) and then when I want to internet post I resize, re-quality, and save as JPG. My only true loss of data should be at the TIF to JPG point, correct? 'Cause if there's loss of data at the RAW to TIFF (not counting the data I threw away by editing...because that's what I wanted to do!!) then RAW is useless.

It is true that your only true loss is between TIFF and JPEG. It is not true that RAW is useless. RAW and TIFF, while very similar, serve a different purpose. As I said, TIFF is an image format, RAW is the ingredients + the recipe.

And if I shoot JPG, I just make my changes, saveas TIF and then get it webready as JPG just to avoid double saving in JPG format. If I see something I don't like after posting, then I still have my TIF to mess with and I'm not JPG to TIF to JPG to TIF....You get the idea....

No, if you shoot JPEG, you are done. Try not to post-process a JPEG as that degrades your image. You have introduced compression artifacts to your image already and having a TIFF step in the middle won't remove them.

If, however, you shoot RAW, convert to TIFF (if that makes post-processing any easier for you), do your post-processing and then save the final image as JPEG, you are okay. You still have compression artifacts in the JPEG step, but that's AT THE END of your post-processing, so none of them has been made worse in post-processing.

This is how I do it, and think it works. Maybe this will also help out the others with file format questions...Unless I'm totally wrong on my thinking....Then we're all screwed!!

All I said after all these lengthy explanations is "have your JPEG as the final result, do not put a JPEG step in the middle of your post-processing or you introduce compression artifacts which might get amplified".

 

[kidchill]

You got it!! Thanks for re-iterating what I said. And no, I didn't say RAW is useless, I stated that "if there's compression loss with RAW, THEN it is useless." This WAS a lengthy explanation, but this is the BASICS section and that was the point!!

 

[Jeff Canes]

How about 'JPGs are like colour slide film, if you get them right to start with they are usually fine if the subject brightness range isn't too great. Raw is like colour negative film.'?

Best,
Helen

Have not worked a lot with slides myself, but IMO JPGs seem to have more latitude that slide film but not as mush as color negatives and RAW defiantly has more, so seem I partially agree with you, my film reference has more to do with getting it right the first time in the camera, as you had to in the film only days

 

[Happy Hour]

This is JPEG. I see that there is now a "lossless JPEG" format, but as far as I know no camera supports it yet.
.

Actually The Sony A700 claims 2 have it.They call it Extra fine. They claim it is lossless jpeg format

 

[yeti]

Actually The Sony A700 claims 2 have it.They call it Extra fine. They claim it is lossless jpeg format

It does? Is the extension of such an image *.jp2? How big is it compared to a RAW? It shouldn't be significantly smaller (a meg or two?).

 

[Happy Hour]

It does? Is the extension of such an image *.jp2? How big is it compared to a RAW? It shouldn't be significantly smaller (a meg or two?).

Ummm... IDK? I never actually did a comparison. I can test it l8tr and let you know. I do shoot with it more than raw. and the results are just as good as raw (IMO)

 

[yeti]

Ummm... IDK? I never actually did a comparison. I can test it l8tr and let you know. I do shoot with it more than raw. and the results are just as good as raw (IMO)

I am not sure what improvements the JPEG2000 format adds to the standard, but the generic JPEG format only supports 8-bit colour (256 levels for each primary colour). If in addition to the lossless compression it also adds 16-bit colour support (65535 levels for each primary colour), then it might be able to achieve the quality of TIFF when used with lossless compression.

 

[kidchill]

So, the question becomes.....I'm thinking about upgrading to a D300, which takes TIF as well as RAW. From what I understand you can shoot in RAW at 14bit as opposed to the 12bit of most other cameras in its class....So, do I shoot TIF or RAW....I guess the TIF would go ahead and make changes to WB, range, and all that, but if it's TIF then can't I change it without too much loss?

 

[yeti]

So, the question becomes.....I'm thinking about upgrading to a D300, which takes TIF as well as RAW. From what I understand you can shoot in RAW at 14bit as opposed to the 12bit of most other cameras in its class....So, do I shoot TIF or RAW....I guess the TIF would go ahead and make changes to WB, range, and all that, but if it's TIF then can't I change it without too much loss?

There shouldn't be any loss in quality between TIFF and RAW.

RAW format, however, will give you a slightly more freedom for things like applying and unapplying filters your camera applies, etc. If you don't need that or if you find it a lot easier to post-process TIFFs as opposed to RAWs, go ahead and use TIFF.

 

[Arch]

So, the question becomes.....I'm thinking about upgrading to a D300, which takes TIF as well as RAW. From what I understand you can shoot in RAW at 14bit as opposed to the 12bit of most other cameras in its class....So, do I shoot TIF or RAW....I guess the TIF would go ahead and make changes to WB, range, and all that, but if it's TIF then can't I change it without too much loss?

You may as well shoot RAW not Tiff. The only reasonable arguement for shooting anything other than RAW is that jpegs are alot smaller in file size... so if your tight on room then jpeg can be handy. However there wont be much difference in size between Tiff and RAW and nowadays processing from RAW is really a very simple task.

It also depends on what you are shooting.... the type of under exposure i get from shooting some types of landscape i would only want to correct in RAW.

 

[kidchill]

Yah, and with that particle camera you also get better bit-depth with RAW...

 

[RKW3]

I've been shooting in RAW now 100% of the time lately (it may change when I start shootin sports), and I love the customization it enables you to do. Here's an example:

My original pic came out like this:

It was easily corrected in PP, however:

And the final result is in my thread here.

It's really worth shooting RAW imo.

 

[nicfargo]

I shoot RAW all the time, no matter what. I then use Lightroom to look at the pictures, make corrections, etc. Then, if I know I'm printing the picture, I can batch export to Jpeg...it's all very easy. The amount of customization on the exposure and WB is worth it to me.

 

[JerryPH]

So, the question becomes.....I'm thinking about upgrading to a D300, which takes TIF as well as RAW.

The answer is easy. RAW. It contains the most info that your D300 will be able to offer you.

I own a D200 and shot only RAW even when practicing. If you are concerned about quality and not losing info in post processing, RAW is your only real choice.

If you do not care about final results, shoot in JPG.