Seamless vs Vinyl vs ??? - Help Needed for Studio Setup

theraven871

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Going to be building a studio for the upcoming winter months.
I've been looking into a white seamless. As much as I love the cost and simplicity of paper, I'm unsure if I want to constantly be replacing it. Does it hold any other value other than its cost?
I'm tempted to get a vinyl "seamless" as an alternative. Do they hold up better over time?

Also, what flooring solutions do you recommend? I see many people with fake laminate floors they swap in and out. I don't know if I want to get that extreme, but I'm curious as to what everyone else is using AND what is working for everyone.

I'm also looking into either a set of Paul C Buff Einsteins or Alien Bees for lighting.
Any recommendations on what modifiers you love to work with?
 
Paper needs to be repalced, vinyl needs to be cleaned. I'm lazy, I'd rather spend the extra money and buy a fresh roll of paper. Once vinyl is permanently stained, you're hooped. As for lighting modifiers, a couple of nice 36x48" soft-boxes a strip box, beauty dish and a couple of 43" umbrellas are a good set up.
 
So, the Vinyl doesn't sound as durable as marketing teams would make me believe? Perhaps paper would be a better option.
I was hoping someone would tell me that Vinyl is great and much more durable.

Would do you recommend for lighting the seamless? Two strobes?
Then possibly 2-3 additional strobes for lighting the subject?
 
Vinyl is very durable, but white anything stains and/or eventually becomes too grubby to use. If you plan on doing high-key shooting a minimum of four lights is what i would recommend.
 
I think a person needs four or five lights, so I recommend the Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights, which cost $99 per unit, for beginners. Five lights, for just under $500. Modifiers? YES to a pair of 43-inch reflecting umbrellas. YES to a pair of 36x48 softboxes. YES to a honeycomb grid and barn doors set. Yes to at least eight light stands and a crossbar. You can buy good, $99 two-stand-and-a-crossbar sets all over nowadays.
 
Going to be building a studio for the upcoming winter months.
I've been looking into a white seamless. As much as I love the cost and simplicity of paper, I'm unsure if I want to constantly be replacing it. Does it hold any other value other than its cost?
I'm tempted to get a vinyl "seamless" as an alternative. Do they hold up better over time?

Also, what flooring solutions do you recommend? I see many people with fake laminate floors they swap in and out. I don't know if I want to get that extreme, but I'm curious as to what everyone else is using AND what is working for everyone.

I'm also looking into either a set of Paul C Buff Einsteins or Alien Bees for lighting.
Any recommendations on what modifiers you love to work with?

Buying a seamless backdrop and a floor doesn't make sense, unless you want the flexibility of having both. Also why white?

As to floors, they sell floor drops in vinyl also.

Using paper, you trim off the few feet of paper that have footprints on it, and pull down some more.

I don't know what you mean by "hold any other value".

I think it would be fairly easy to figure the difference in cost between paper and vinyl by estimating how many uses each would get, then divide the cost by the number of uses.

Different photographers have different needs, so what kind of photography will you be doing in your studio? For portraiture, tirediron and Derrel have listed a good starting kit.
 
I think a person needs four or five lights, so I recommend the Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights, which cost $99 per unit, for beginners. Five lights, for just under $500. Modifiers? YES to a pair of 43-inch reflecting umbrellas. YES to a pair of 36x48 softboxes. YES to a honeycomb grid and barn doors set. Yes to at least eight light stands and a crossbar. You can buy good, $99 two-stand-and-a-crossbar sets all over nowadays.
This was really good advice. Does the performance of the flashpoint equal the performance of a set of Alien Bees? (Paul C Buff)
Also, does the honeycomb grid function the same as a snoot?
 
Going to be building a studio for the upcoming winter months.
I've been looking into a white seamless. As much as I love the cost and simplicity of paper, I'm unsure if I want to constantly be replacing it. Does it hold any other value other than its cost?
I'm tempted to get a vinyl "seamless" as an alternative. Do they hold up better over time?

Also, what flooring solutions do you recommend? I see many people with fake laminate floors they swap in and out. I don't know if I want to get that extreme, but I'm curious as to what everyone else is using AND what is working for everyone.
I'm also looking into either a set of Paul C Buff Einsteins or Alien Bees for lighting.
Any recommendations on what modifiers you love to work with?
Buying a seamless backdrop and a floor doesn't make sense, unless you want the flexibility of having both. Also why white?
As to floors, they sell floor drops in vinyl also.
Using paper, you trim off the few feet of paper that have footprints on it, and pull down some more.
I don't know what you mean by "hold any other value".
I think it would be fairly easy to figure the difference in cost between paper and vinyl by estimating how many uses each would get, then divide the cost by the number of uses.
Different photographers have different needs, so what kind of photography will you be doing in your studio? For portraiture, tirediron and Derrel have listed a good starting kit.
Do you recommend a color other than white?
Why doesn't a seamless backdrop and a floor make sense?
Its not so easy for me to determine the costs. I wanted to ask for those more experienced than I to respond with their opinion. I like the concept of a Vinyl backdrop, but was unsure if the added cost would be "worth it" in the long run.
Yes. This setup will be used primarily for portraiture.
 
theraven871 said:
Does the performance of the flashpoint equal the performance of a set of Alien Bees? (Paul C Buff)
Also, does the honeycomb grid function the same as a snoot?

The Flashpoint 320M at five feet, with its reflector removed, puts out one full, whole f/stop MORE light than an Alien Bee 400 at five feet with its reflector removed. Under the same test conditions, the Flashpoint 320M puts out a little bit more light than an Alien Bee 800 does.

product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear - Clickin Moms

Paul C. Buff has the best marketing and PR machine in the flash industry, but as you can see from the article above, the Flashpoint 320M tested out as significantly more-powerful than the Alien Bee 400. The Flashpoint 320M puts out more than an Alien Bee 800 does. Tip: Paul C. Buff has for decades, given its flash units exaggerated numbers for their names, beginning with the Paul C. Buff White Lighting 5000 and White Lighting 10,000 monolights. Five thousand? Ten thousand? Yes, Beam Candle Power Seconds...an utterly obscure measurement no other flash maker that I know of ever used...annnnd...today they continue this. Marketing. Advertising. Promotion.

A honeycomb grid functions "sort of like" a snoot, but has more adjustment potential. A honeycomb can also be used with barn doors, and/or a diffuser over the grid. The grid softens the light, and makes it spread out a lot less than with the normal reflector. Grids come in different strengths, like 3 degree, 10 degree, 20 degree, 35 degree. Depends on the brand. I find 20 degree and 35 degree to be very useful. I personally have a VERY LOW opinion of snoots, and a very high opinion of grids. Snoots are pretty much one-dimensional accessories of, I think, kind of limited value, but they are easy to manufacture and sell.

Grids allow you to light hair and backgrounds with a narrow, controlled spread of somewhat softened light. Adding a barn doors set allows further control, and allows a wider-angle grid,like as 40 degree, to be "cut down" to a smaller pool of light, and can help prevent lens flares by shielding a reflector from the camera. A standard reflector, plus a grid, plus a barn door set allows you to create an effect a lot like a strip softbox. Grids are a staple of professional, advanced lighting. They are light-shapiong tools, and you realllllllllllllllly NEED to have at least a couple of grids and at the bare minimum, one barn doors set.
 
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Do you recommend a color other than white?
Why doesn't a seamless backdrop and a floor make sense?
Its not so easy for me to determine the costs. I wanted to ask for those more experienced than I to respond with their opinion. I like the concept of a Vinyl backdrop, but was unsure if the added cost would be "worth it" in the long run.
Yes. This setup will be used primarily for portraiture.

White is harder to make it black should you ever want to.

The whole point of a seamless backdrop is so that you don't see any break between the vertical part and the floor. Placing a floor in the shot makes me wonder why would you want to purchase a seamless backdrop.
 
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Seamless: Thunder Gray is a really useful color. Solid black is another good seamless color. White or Super White is also useful. Thunder works pretty well because when you shine studio lighting onto a subject from three to six feet away, the person becomes "bright", so you can close the lens aperture down to say, f/11, using ISO 200 and a 150 Watt-second main light flash. With the background say five feet behind the person, thunder gray will "drop off" to a very,very,very dark gray color. If you aim a low-powered flash right at the dark background paper, the center of the frame will be brightened up, and then the light will fall off in intensity at the edges of the background, and also at the edges of the portrait photo being made. This is the basic way portraits are done using a DARK background of canvas, muslin, fabric, vinyl, or paper.

If the background paper is BLACK, firing a strobe through a colored gel will produce a colored background. Because the background is black, the gel-colored light will NOT reflect like crazy, all over the shooting area, the way it does when the background is white paper, which bounces colored light all over the shooting area.

Gray is in-between. It reflects more light than black, less than white. A gray seamless background can be "lifted" to white by applying a good deal of light to the background while keeping the light level on the subjects in front of the paper significantly LOWER in power than the background lights are set to output.
 
Going to be building a studio for the upcoming winter months.
I've been looking into a white seamless. As much as I love the cost and simplicity of paper, I'm unsure if I want to constantly be replacing it. Does it hold any other value other than its cost?
I'm tempted to get a vinyl "seamless" as an alternative. Do they hold up better over time?

Also, what flooring solutions do you recommend? I see many people with fake laminate floors they swap in and out. I don't know if I want to get that extreme, but I'm curious as to what everyone else is using AND what is working for everyone.
I'm also looking into either a set of Paul C Buff Einsteins or Alien Bees for lighting.
Any recommendations on what modifiers you love to work with?
Buying a seamless backdrop and a floor doesn't make sense, unless you want the flexibility of having both. Also why white?
As to floors, they sell floor drops in vinyl also.
Using paper, you trim off the few feet of paper that have footprints on it, and pull down some more.
I don't know what you mean by "hold any other value".
I think it would be fairly easy to figure the difference in cost between paper and vinyl by estimating how many uses each would get, then divide the cost by the number of uses.
Different photographers have different needs, so what kind of photography will you be doing in your studio? For portraiture, tirediron and Derrel have listed a good starting kit.
Do you recommend a color other than white?
Why doesn't a seamless backdrop and a floor make sense?
Its not so easy for me to determine the costs. I wanted to ask for those more experienced than I to respond with their opinion. I like the concept of a Vinyl backdrop, but was unsure if the added cost would be "worth it" in the long run.
Yes. This setup will be used primarily for portraiture.


I would get a whopping great role of 18% grey paper. You can roll it out and create your seamless curve and with 18% grey if you over expose it by 2 stops, it's white. Under expose it by 4 stops, it's black.

Photographic backdrop paper is thick and durable and you can role the same bit in and out for weeks until it gets too dirty, then just cut it off and either throw it away, or keep the off cuts and turn them over to the clean side for smaller backdrop needs.

Amazingly versatile stuff!

These 3 shots were all taken against the same piece of 18% grey paper during the same shoot:

HJLiggat-042.jpg HJLiggat-001-10x8.jpg HJLiggat-328-10x8.jpg
 
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All shot on Savage Thunder Grey:


Jess1.jpg
I had no idea the grey would respond so well to color gels. This really gets me thinking that paper may be the way to go.
I may order a trio of white, black & grey.

As for the studio lights. I'm still undecided.
 
theraven871 said:
Does the performance of the flashpoint equal the performance of a set of Alien Bees? (Paul C Buff)
Also, does the honeycomb grid function the same as a snoot?

The Flashpoint 320M at five feet, with its reflector removed, puts out one full, whole f/stop MORE light than an Alien Bee 400 at five feet with its reflector removed. Under the same test conditions, the Flashpoint 320M puts out a little bit more light than an Alien Bee 800 does.

product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear - Clickin Moms

Paul C. Buff has the best marketing and PR machine in the flash industry, but as you can see from the article above, the Flashpoint 320M tested out as significantly more-powerful than the Alien Bee 400. The Flashpoint 320M puts out more than an Alien Bee 800 does. Tip: Paul C. Buff has for decades, given its flash units exaggerated numbers for their names, beginning with the Paul C. Buff White Lighting 5000 and White Lighting 10,000 monolights. Five thousand? Ten thousand? Yes, Beam Candle Power Seconds...an utterly obscure measurement no other flash maker that I know of ever used...annnnd...today they continue this. Marketing. Advertising. Promotion.

A honeycomb grid functions "sort of like" a snoot, but has more adjustment potential. A honeycomb can also be used with barn doors, and/or a diffuser over the grid. The grid softens the light, and makes it spread out a lot less than with the normal reflector. Grids come in different strengths, like 3 degree, 10 degree, 20 degree, 35 degree. Depends on the brand. I find 20 degree and 35 degree to be very useful. I personally have a VERY LOW opinion of snoots, and a very high opinion of grids. Snoots are pretty much one-dimensional accessories of, I think, kind of limited value, but they are easy to manufacture and sell.

Grids allow you to light hair and backgrounds with a narrow, controlled spread of somewhat softened light. Adding a barn doors set allows further control, and allows a wider-angle grid,like as 40 degree, to be "cut down" to a smaller pool of light, and can help prevent lens flares by shielding a reflector from the camera. A standard reflector, plus a grid, plus a barn door set allows you to create an effect a lot like a strip softbox. Grids are a staple of professional, advanced lighting. They are light-shapiong tools, and you realllllllllllllllly NEED to have at least a couple of grids and at the bare minimum, one barn doors set.

I'm going to be calling Adorama for some more information regarding the Flashpoint 320M.
They just look to be a great bang for the buck.
My only concern with them, is they may not be as portable as the Alien Bees. For example, I heard that the modeling light only works when on AC power.
All things aside, I don't really care what brand I get. I only ask that I can get at least 3-5 years out of them and don't regret my purchase by finding something that would have worked better. However, for how cheap they are, I could easily replace one if it fails. I just need to ensure that the Flashpoint system can become mobile if needed.
 

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