Sensors getting.....smaller?

[usayit]

This is actually one of the most exciting announcements in a long while.

Yes... exciting. Pentax had the "X-change" prototype that got shelved with similar concepts.

http://photokina-show.com/0466/pentax/digitalcamera/pentaxdigitalcameras/

Pentax comes up with great ideas but lacks the ability to execute (late to DSLR game, Digital MF 645 shelved, etc..)

 

[Garbz]

But of course you know that this does NOT apply to a dSLR. What you get is an electronic digitization of an image. What you see is an optical reflection. No match. With a good EVF it actually is WYSIWYG and of course it too is TTL.

Well if you want to go nit picking sure. But I was referring to the fact that providing the distance from the ground glass to the sensor plane is identical from the mirror surface then what you see through the viewfinder is exactly how it will be displayed on the sensor. Or about 98% or as the specifications state. Ok so maybe a few stops darker than real too because of the ground glass, but otherwise exactly as how it would be projected on the sensor.

My point was simply the lack of parallax error, and the fact that focusing happens directly on a projection of the light the lens sees.

 

[Bifurcator]

I honestly don't think of this as nitpicking. It's only the same distance at some light frequencies. If you're shooting something that is dark red or deep violet for example it's measurably and noticeably wrong. With an EVF you are seeing what the sensor is seeing if the EVF is signaled by the sensor itself and that's what we're talking about here. You see exactly how dark or light the exposure will actually be - because you're seeing the exposure itself pre-shutter-release. With an EVF if the exposure settings will record all black you see all black. The only time it needs to approximate is with very long exposures of over 1 second. At least it will do this. An all optical system and you're flying completely blind at all shutter speeds ( ) you only get an inadequate approximation of aperture which actually doesn't look anything at all like what the recorded image will be like. An EVF gets both shutter and aperture pretty spot on.

Then there's also the increased contrast that a pentamirror or pentaprism introduces. Plus the affects of the ground glass as you mentioned. For film I can understand an eye-level prism reflex system because you cannon see what the film sees directly. With a digital image sensor you can and it was a mistake IMHO for manufacturers to retrofit as Sir Iron puts it, the new system into the old environment - which doesn't directly apply. It's cost them years of convoluted trouble-shooting as a result.

"My point was simply the lack of parallax error, and the fact that focusing happens directly on a projection of the light the lens sees."

Parallax error applies when discussing a TLR or Range Finder system but not to an SLR of any kind - at least not the kinds we're discussing here. For parallax effect or "error" to occur you need two separate lines of sight. With an EVF focusing also "happens directly on a projection of the light the lens sees". The additional advantage is that you're viewing it trough the eyes of the recording device itself. We're talking about EVF vrs. SLR OVF here right? No?

 

[Bifurcator]

Oh wait... the dark red and violet are still the same distance - just measurement is off. Oops. Oh well that minor point is blown.

 

[Photoguynorth]

I would NEVER give up an SLR format for a rangefinder of EVF. This is of course a subjective decision for each of us, but the advantages of a DSLR with a good size sensor outweigh the downsides for me - no question. Controllable DOF (not possible with small sensors), real images in the viewfinder, as well as the size and feel to me are well worth the compromises (and I know there are some).
That does not make other choices wrong at all - there is no single best format.

 

[prodigy2k7]

But, dont the live view/lcd screens still only have about 1 milliom pixels? And for instance a 10MP camera, well wouldnt there be a difference and you could say its not wysiwyg?

 

[Bifurcator]

Me?

Well, I know what you mean. Technically it would still fit within the definition of WYSIWYG which was first coined as a term meaning "display independent" in general and font-shape + image-location preview in specific. Anyway, I'm not really even sure WYSIWYG is an applicable term "technically" speaking. It's pretty handy in describing EVF though.

 

[prodigy2k7]

I dont like LCD screens, i dont care how good they are, cant beat optics

 

[Bifurcator]

We're not talking about LCD "screens".

EVF = Electronic View Finder

As Wikipedia puts it:

Operation

The sensor records the view through the lens, the view is processed, and finally projected on a miniature display which is viewable through the eyepiece. Electronic viewfinders in digital still cameras are very similar to those in video cameras.

Electronic viewfinders in still photography

Electronic viewfinders have the following advantages over optical viewfinders:

• Lack of parallax and ability to cope with high zoom-ratio lenses, without the need for a bulky reflex mirror.
• Information about the scene, such as a histogram, can be overlaid with the scene.
• EVFs can show an approximation of the final exposure when they are exposure-priority.
• EVFs can show a low-light scene brighter than it is when they are display-priority.
• Most EVFs show 100% coverage of the final image.
• EVFs provide a more accurate depiction of the contrast and tonal qualities that will appear in the final image.

This:

etc.

And if they're smart they'll add a connector so I can opt for different configurations. I doubt a dSLR manufacturer will do it the smart way though - given their track records so far.

 

[JHF Photography]

But with an EVF would there not be delayed start time when turning on the camera? And lag in the display as you zoom, focus, change settings, etc? I know from using P&S's they tend to suffer from just such lag and slow start times. That's one of the things I love about shooting with a DSLR is the instant shooting ability when you turn it on, and the fact that there is no lag in the viewfinder.

Also, would the EVF not be a big drain on the battery?

 

[prodigy2k7]

My Canon PowerShot S2IS had a crappy EVF, although I know its crappy, even tho there is plenty better ones, i still dont like em

And im sure they are tiny LCD SCREENS.... So yes they are lcd screens, im not talking about the giant 3" ones on DSLRs

You dont get parallax with SLRs cuz its TTL, I meant SLR optical, not jus toptical like in some P&S

I dont think we are in the time yet where SLRs will have a combo of having SLR and/or EVF, because having a fast FPS like 6-10FPS, your LCD will lag horribly with current technology....LCDs arent meant to be black then color then black then color 6-10 times in a second...they lag. It will be difficult to pan with a EVF. It was horrible on my S2 IS, I am extrapolating though...

 

[reg]

And im sure they are tiny LCD SCREENS.... So yes they are lcd screens, im not talking about the giant 3" ones on DSLRs

You repeating yourself, yes you repeating yourself does not make your statements any more true.

 

[prodigy2k7]

eh slightly different not exactly repeating myself...

 

[photographyaddict]

yes. much smaller. you kno that's just what technology keeps trying to do. want it to be like magic.

 

[Bifurcator]

Considering all the video cameras I've used and my current Konica/Minolta A2 with a 1 million pixel EVF:

But with an EVF would there not be delayed start time when turning on the camera?
Nope none.


And lag in the display as you zoom, focus, change settings, etc?
Nope, none.


I know from using P&S's they tend to suffer from just such lag and slow start times.
Yup, but not anything to do with the EVF.


That's one of the things I love about shooting with a DSLR is the instant shooting ability when you turn it on, and the fact that there is no lag in the viewfinder.
Yup, EVFs too.


Also, would the EVF not be a big drain on the battery?
Yeah it would. But with an eye-sensor it wouldn't be dramatic at all. Mine currently has a few selectable ways of using the sensor:

Always on.
Always off.
Off when eye is removed.
Switch to LCD when eye is removed and LCD is off when eye is near.

It's for sure less drain than an LCD. With a good EVF an LCD isn't needed at all and can be considered an extra luxury item.