Some Thoughts and Warnings for Beginners...

[MikeLem]

I've spent the past couple of weeks reading countless threads here on TPF (and several other forums). I'm noticing a trend, and I wanted to throw my concerns out there. I'm sure I'll be burned at the stake for this post, but I think it's important.

A few things to note: 1) I'm not a full-time professional. I earn about 40% of my income through photo/video work, but I'm not one of the true professionals who puts all of their food on the table with his/her camera. If I didn't earn a dollar doing this stuff, my family would steal eat, albeit not as well as we do now. 2) When I first got into photography, I did it to make money. I didn't know what I was doing, and basically did everything I could to copy what I saw others doing. I failed miserably, and had to start over. Not lying to myself about what I am capable of has served me well this time around. My business is new, but growing quickly. 3) I'm having a very hard time finding my "vision" and/or style. But, I know that it'll find me if I keep shooting regularly. It takes time. I'm not going to find it sitting in front of my laptop talking about it.

Typing, Not Shooting

Overwhelmingly, I'm finding many contributors here (and on most other forums) spend much more time talking about photography than taking pictures. Be aware of that, beginners. Many know the technical aspects of photography, but have a severely limited understanding of how to apply that knowledge, how to please clients, and/or how to make great photos. Remember to listen to advice, think about it, and make a decision about whether or not it applies to what you're looking to accomplish as a photographer. Every post is not gospel. It's one person's opinion. Also, technical input is not always correct, even from long-time members.

Spend more time shooting than you spend here on the forum. I wish there were a way to require each poster to have picked up their camera within the past month in order to be allowed to post. You'll learn something from reading and posting here, but you're going to improve as a photographer a hell of a lot faster by shooting.

Your Vision and Style Matters

Over and over, I see photos that lack any soul/feeling at all applauded purely for being properly exposed, composed "by the book", and in an appropriate orientation for the genre. Meanwhile, great photos are being crapped on because they don't comply with the standard rules of photography. I know, I know: Learn the rules first, and then break them. Sorry, but if someone is creating awesome work out of the gate because they see something that the average person who picks up a camera does not, they ought to be applauded. The frequency with which sameness is encouraged is scary, and damaging to photography, in my opinion. Fortunately, my work sucked initially, so I didn't have to worry about this. I still don't, for the most part.

This Stuff is Mostly Personal Preference

No matter what your photos look like, there will be people who love them, people who like them, people who dislike them, and people who hate them. Remember that. This happens at every level. Terry Richardson gets paid (a bunch of money, presumably) to shoot for magazines and advertising campaigns, and I think his work is ****. A lot of people do. A lot of people disagree, however. It is what it is. There's an ass for every seat and every vision. Again, listen to the advice and critique offered by other forum members, but don't be afraid to believe in your vision, whatever that may be.


To the veteran members: I would encourage you to offer your input as "the book would say to do it this way" instead of saying "you did it wrong". Stop promoting sameness, and in many ways, mediocrity. As it becomes easier and easier to create properly exposed photos, vision matters more and more. Let people develop theirs without shooting them down from the get-go.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[tirediron]

...Overwhelmingly, I'm finding many contributors here (and on most other forums) spend much more time talking about photography than taking pictures.

And on what evidence do you base that conclusion. Several very active members here are full time working photographers who provide a lot of assistance, but don't always post a lot of their work. Just because someone doesn't post a large number of images does not mean they don't shoot a lot.

Many know the technical aspects of photography, but have a severely limited understanding of how to apply that knowledge, how to please clients, and/or how to make great photos.

Again, you make this assertion based on what?

Remember to listen to advice, think about it, and make a decision about whether or not it applies to what you're looking to accomplish as a photographer. Every post is not gospel.

Very true!

Spend more time shooting than you spend here on the forum. I wish there were a way to require each poster to have picked up their camera within the past month in order to be allowed to post. You'll learn something from reading and posting here, but you're going to improve as a photographer a hell of a lot faster by shooting.

Perhaps, but if you don't have someone providing object critique, it's quite possible that what you will learn is how to make the same mistake over and over.

Over and over, I see photos that lack any soul/feeling at all applauded purely for being properly exposed, composed "by the book", and in an appropriate orientation for the genre. Meanwhile, great photos are being crapped on because they don't comply with the standard rules of photography. I know, I know: Learn the rules first, and then break them. Sorry, but if someone is creating awesome work out of the gate because they see something that the average person who picks up a camera does not, they ought to be applauded. The frequency with which sameness is encouraged is scary, and damaging to photography, in my opinion. Fortunately, my work sucked initially, so I didn't have to worry about this. I still don't, for the most part.

Photography is art; there is no good or bad, and classification of it is purely subjective, HOWEVER there are accepted standards for certain types of work, and accepted standards for composition and exposure in many cases. When someone who has spent many years shooting a particular area and has first-hand experience with what is commonly accepted makes a comment, it's a good idea to take it under advisement. IMO, far too many people use terms such as "artistic vision" as a cover-up for lack of skill and knowledge. "I know it's poorly exposed but I meant it to be like that!" Rightttt...sureeee...

No matter what your photos look like, there will be people who love them, people who like them, people who dislike them, and people who hate them. Remember that. This happens at every level. Terry Richardson gets paid (a bunch of money, presumably) to shoot for magazines and advertising campaigns, and I think his work is ****. A lot of people do. A lot of people disagree, however. It is what it is. There's an ass for every seat and every vision. Again, listen to the advice and critique offered by other forum members, but don't be afraid to believe in your vision, whatever that may be.

Sound advice indeed!

To the veteran members: I would encourage you to offer your input as "the book would say to do it this way" instead of saying "you did it wrong". Stop promoting sameness, and in many ways, mediocrity. As it becomes easier and easier to create properly exposed photos, vision matters more and more. Let people develop theirs without shooting them down from the get-go.

I'm not sure where this comes from. If someone posts an image or series of images for critique, I will offer my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. If I say that an image isn't well exposed or composed, that's my opinion, and I am doing what I believe will help the poster grow as a photographer. You, and every other member of TPF are free to disagree with any or all of what I (or anyone else) posts... promoting skill and the ability to master the basics, is not, IMO, promoting mediocrity!

 

[rexbobcat]

Some photos are just bad.

All the "it's just not my cup of tea"s will not change that.

Depending on what the photographer wants to accomplish, they can do some things wrong, and I will try and help them discover what that is.

Vision is all fine and good, but pleasing aesthetics do matter more in my opinion. Anybody can take a crappy image and put some BS existential meaning behind it. A "true" photographer can create both a compelling image visually as well as conceptually.

Also; what's up with all of the info dump posts lately? Lol

 

[3bayjunkie]

I agree. I always get crapped on for my photos not being by the technical correctness, because i have more of an artsy style. Well frankly it makes me not want to share my work on here. And i left another forum because of how much they hated my photos.

 

[MikeLem]

...Overwhelmingly, I'm finding many contributors here (and on most other forums) spend much more time talking about photography than taking pictures.

And on what evidence do you base that conclusion. Several very active members here are full time working photographers who provide a lot of assistance, but don't always post a lot of their work. Just because someone doesn't post a large number of images does not mean they don't shoot a lot.

Right or wrong, I base this opinion on the quality of limited amount of work that I do see. Here's the thing, tirediron: Being a full-time photographer doesn't mean you're qualified to give advice on anything other than being a full-time photographer. There are plenty of (IMO) terrible photographers making a full-time living, and plenty of (IMO) great photographers who can't make the income part of the equation happen. Again, ass for every seat, etc., etc.

Many know the technical aspects of photography, but have a severely limited understanding of how to apply that knowledge, how to please clients, and/or how to make great photos.

Again, you make this assertion based on what?

Again, based on quality of work. There are plenty of frequent posters who know what they're doing and produce some beautiful stuff. There are also plenty who know the data, and produce junk. Again, all of this is IMO.

Photography is art; there is no good or bad, and classification of it is purely subjective, HOWEVER there are accepted standards for certain types of work, and accepted standards for composition and exposure in many cases. When someone who has spent many years shooting a particular area and has first-hand experience with what is commonly accepted makes a comment, it's a good idea to take it under advisement. IMO, far too many people use terms such as "artistic vision" as a cover-up for lack of skill and knowledge. "I know it's poorly exposed but I meant it to be like that!" Rightttt...sureeee...

Often, the "standard" is boring. Galleries full of "the standard" are boring.

To the veteran members: I would encourage you to offer your input as "the book would say to do it this way" instead of saying "you did it wrong". Stop promoting sameness, and in many ways, mediocrity. As it becomes easier and easier to create properly exposed photos, vision matters more and more. Let people develop theirs without shooting them down from the get-go.

I'm not sure where this comes from. If someone posts an image or series of images for critique, I will offer my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. If I say that an image isn't well exposed or composed, that's my opinion, and I am doing what I believe will help the poster grow as a photographer. You, and every other member of TPF are free to disagree with any or all of what I (or anyone else) posts... promoting skill and the ability to master the basics, is not, IMO, promoting mediocrity!

That's just it, beginners don't know that they're allowed to disagree and still be a good photographer. Promoting one way to do things is DEFINITELY promoting mediocrity. So, clarifying the opinion vs. law factor is important, IMO.

 

[MikeLem]

I agree. I always get crapped on for my photos not being by the technical correctness, because i have more of an artsy style. Well frankly it makes me not want to share my work on here. And i left another forum because of how much they hated my photos.

Careful, though. It's perfectly reasonable for people to not like what you do. It is what it is. Where the issue lies is when the more seasoned posters indicate that there is only one way to do things.

 

[unpopular]

I yammer on plenty about photography, but rest assure, when I do actually pick up a camera, I do still know how to use it!

Thinking about photography is every bit as important as actually taking pictures. It's important to reflect on the art and technique. Perhaps some of us (not me, naturally) go to extreme or have other issues getting in their way from taking as many photos as they'd prefer - or perhaps some don't post everything they produce. But good photographers do think about photography and internet forums are a great place to do that thinking in a participatory way.

 

[Derrel]

I yammer on plenty about photography, but rest assure, when I do actually pick up a camera, I do still know how to use it!

Thinking about photography is every bit as important as actually taking pictures. It's important to reflect on the art and technique. Perhaps some of us (not me, naturally) go to extreme or have other issues getting in their way from taking as many photos as they'd prefer - or perhaps some don't post everything they produce. But good photographers do think about photography and internet forums are a great place to do that thinking in a participatory way.

Awwww...hogwash! If a person doesn't post a whole bunch of so-so, to fair-to-middlin' pictures, and ask for C&C on those pictures, then they don't know SQUAT!!!!! Posting images is what separates the two-year people from the three-week people from the multi-decade shooters. NO post....NO skill...no POST...no BRAINS.

 

[unpopular]

CC welcome! Just keep it positive, mmmk?

 

[PhotoWrangler]

Awwww...hogwash! If a person doesn't post a whole bunch of so-so, to fair-to-middlin' pictures, and ask for C&C on those pictures, then they don't know SQUAT!!!!! Posting images is what separates the two-year people from the three-week people from the multi-decade shooters. NO post....NO skill...no POST...no BRAINS.

I just quit posting pictures because I got tired of know-nothings posting useless comments about how much they don't know anything. Besides, they weren't signing the checks that were being deposited in my bank account, so their "good photo" "bad photo" "i'd change this" comments weren't needed anyway.

...and for the record, the only times that I'm on the forums are the times when I CANT be out shooting. I rarely log in on my days off.

 

[3bayjunkie]

CC welcome! Just keep it positive, mmmk?

<img src="http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19884"/>

I like how you have incorporated the fingers in the foreground. It really presents a sense of immersion. I feel like im really there taking the photo! It also helps tell a story. The photographer is part of this little slice of time and it makes the details in the background seem less important. Which in this situation i think really goes to improve on the photo as a whole. Great exposure. Spot on

 

[Forkie]

I don't post my photos in the forum very often simply because I don't often require C&C. I'm happy with the way my photos look because the final version is pretty much what I wanted it to be.

Even if I'm not quite sure about a photo, I probably wouldn't post it for C&C because I generally don't exhibit photos I'm not happy with. So it's a vicious circle, really: There's no point posting a photo I'm already happy with and I don't like posting images that I'm not happy with.

 

[amolitor]

The "it's all personal taste" and "it's all subjective" and on on, while containing germs of truth, are cop-outs and basically wrong.

If nobody likes your work, you're probably just not very good.

On the other hand, if everyone likes your work, that does not mean that you are good. Goodness and popularity are not the same thing. In fact, if your work is any good it's probably true that some people won't like it. The point about really good work is that most people like it, at least a little, and most people get something out of it whether they like it or not. Not everyone, but most people.

Internet forums are certainly filled with people who tend to glom on to technical details and criticize those. Amateurs who have recently mastered technical detail X will naturally see and criticize X in everything -- this is the way our brains work, the thing we learned most recently is the most important thing. Professionals who are actually making money will tend to criticize work based on how closely it conforms to the work they're doing -- again, perfectly natural, Y sells and Z does not, therefore Y is better, your photo is Z so it sucks.

 

[amolitor]

One more thing.

Typing versus shooting. There's nothing wrong with talking about photography, and talking about it doesn't exclude you from the private club of people who are allowed to have opinions about it. If I had a nickle for every time I've been snidely asked "Where are YOUR photographs!!!" I'd have.. well, I'd be well on my way toward a good cup of coffee at least. I find this bizarre and defensive. When someone tells you 'that book is lousy' do you ask 'where are YOUR novels?!!!' -- no you do not.

If you take no pictures at all, if you take only terrible pictures, if you keep your pictures to yourself, you are nonetheless permitted to have opinions about photographs. You may have excellent opinions, in fact. See my previous remarks about amateurs and pros, and they way they tend to critique. Being a photographer tends to get in the way of good critique as much as it helps.

 

[manaheim]

You make some fair points, but i guess I can't post anymore because I have a full time IT job and kids so i really only pick up my camera for probably 30mins every other week.