Trespassing and Police

Lucie · Apr 4, 2006

In my current town, a local photographer was arrested and fined $10,000 for shooting on railroad tracks. Even though there wasn't a train scheduled to arrive anytime soon. Apparently, the only railroad tracks you can shoot on are those that are abandoned.

Hertz van Rental · Apr 4, 2006

In the UK there is no actual law against trespass.
All that can be done is to ask you to leave and you do so by the quickest route.
You can, however, be prosecuted for criminal damage in connection - if you have caused any. So you cannot force an entry. You can only trespass with impunity if you gain access through an existing entrance.
There is one exception, though, and that is the railways. Trespassing on a railway track - whether there is a train coming or no - has a special law covering it as it is seen as a potential threat to life.

Soocom1 · Apr 4, 2006

On the following web site, this story appeared on the hobby of ‘railfanning’ or fans or railroads. One individual was stripped of his right to visit one location because of over-zealous law enforcement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56984-2002Nov14

This one should be of interest to all you NY Yankees....

http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/newswire/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002199058

How many people have ever heard of railfanning before?

There is a legitimate concern over terrorism, but not to the expense of our freedoms and liberties.

What I can only guess in this case (given I do not live in Kansas) is that the fine came from the TRESSPASS and not the actual photographing. I have yet to find a single law anywhere saying you cannot photograph any railroads. What you cannot do is trespass on those tracks or railroad property. Not only is it criminal to do so, but also very dangerous. If you can correct me on that… great.

hot shot · Apr 4, 2006

me moved on for trespassing never :wink:

one way to get round it out here in lincolshire is to check a map for rights of way so long as you in the same feild or rea of the right of way theres not tooo much they can do about you, you just erm got lost

only been seriosly arrested once when i was at the top of bass malting ( old beer factory ) and got done for removing a widow didnt stick as the serious rust on the breack showed that it was a wee bit old

FOTO-GRAFFIC · Apr 18, 2006

Hertz van Rental said:
In the UK there is no actual law against trespass.
All that can be done is to ask you to leave and you do so by the quickest route.
You can, however, be prosecuted for criminal damage in connection - if you have caused any. So you cannot force an entry. You can only trespass with impunity if you gain access through an existing entrance.
There is one exception, though, and that is the railways. Trespassing on a railway track - whether there is a train coming or no - has a special law covering it as it is seen as a potential threat to life.

You have to add to that airports, military establishments - especially one in Berkshire and all sites owned or operated by AWRE. All for obvious reasons. There is of course here in the UK Traffalgar Square and the Southbank - Ken Livinston has employed a group of strangely dressed people to stop and ask you what you are photographing. They are street wardens that dress like they are out of a childrens programme but with an IQ of a house brick ( applogies to any house brick that maybe on the site).
They were hassling an American lady in Traffalgar Square because she was photgraphing her children and they wanted to know if they were her children - they went on their way when her husband arrived and he was big and didn't look like he wanted discuss the matter with them. I get pulled a lot by Police and security but if you state your reasons and don't upset anyone I have always been allowed to continue - if they don't want you to then there is always another day and get permission before you turn up. I know this doesn't help any one outside the Uk but it does highlite how cautious we need to be when abroad even in the land of the free:er:

alanH · Apr 18, 2006

Has anyone in the Uk ever had there camera confiscated, my older bro. was shooting an animal rights demo in London and the police confiscated his equipment and he never got it back.

FOTO-GRAFFIC · Apr 20, 2006

alanH said:
Has anyone in the Uk ever had there camera confiscated, my older bro. was shooting an animal rights demo in London and the police confiscated his equipment and he never got it back.

Sounds serious - there are laws that allow Police to confiscate a camera or devices used for recording but they are now allowed to keep it. In fact they have to have very strong reasons to confiscate. They can request you stop filming but if you are in a public place then you have the right to do so. they wouldn't do this to a jouno and they don't have any more rights than anyone else - forget the press card it's meaningless today - ask any PAP. An amature was arrested in Traffalgar Square and his equipment taken away and he spent the night in the cells. he was released without charge the following morning and his equipment was returned to him and he sued the Met and I believe he won his case but the Met didn't appologise as they believe they are above such things - no wonder they don't get much co-operation from the public. That said I shot some police in London (with camera before I get a armed response team round my house) and they were only to happy to pose.
Has you brother asked for his equipment back.

alanH · Apr 21, 2006

My brother did ask for his camera back but unfortunatly no could explain where it was.

hot shot · Apr 22, 2006

thats a breach of human right i do beleave try talkin to the press they might be intresed in it

essjayyell · Apr 23, 2006

Being a skateboarder and keen photographer I've done my fair share of trespassing. I've only been caught by the police a few times, and security guards countless times. Police usually just ask for your name and details and tell you to move on. I've never been arrested or fined. You just be nice to them and they'll usually treat you the same.

Don Simon · May 7, 2006

alanH said:
Has anyone in the Uk ever had there camera confiscated, my older bro. was shooting an animal rights demo in London and the police confiscated his equipment and he never got it back.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if your brother himself was confiscated. Since they're apparently trying to ban all forms of protest it wouldn't surprise me if they've banned photographing protests too. Also the police in general don't like being photographed themselves - well, it wouldn't do to have someone photograph them shooting an unarmed man repeatedly in the head, would it?

Terrorism is a concern. Pedophilia is a concern. But they're not reasons to leave your camera at home or not take photos in certain areas in case someone gets the wrong idea. IMHO wherever you're allowed to walk you should be allowed to take photos. You can't wander into a military base, and you can't take photos of a military base. Fair enough. But I've been told I can't take photos on a train platform, when I made it clear that I wasn't using flash and my camera clearly didn't resemble any form of weapon. Some people just like giving orders and telling you what you can't do, and will seize any opportunity to do so. Ignore their demands and ask speak to someone with more authority. Even better, learn the law and recite it. They really, really hate that. :mrgreen:

D-50 · May 7, 2006

I was just in DC and apparently you cannot use a tripod to take a photo of the white house, I'm sick of the country using Natinoal Security as an excuse for everything.. I guess the terrorist did their job by altering the freedoms we have.

journeyman · Jun 24, 2006

I live in Pittsburgh and they seem to be really uptight about private property and that. I was thrown out of the local marina by some guy who threatened to call the cops, and I went back later and got the shots

. But I like going there a lot so eventually I pushed my luck and the cops told me it was private property and to move along.

I also heard rumor that if you try to take a picture of the PPG building looking up they'll threaten to confiscate your camera because their worried about security. Though I have never seen a picture taken in this manner that could provide a shread of useful information on attacking the building.

I have a big problem though asking permission to go somewhere to take a picture in theroy does it not seem like your asking permission to make art? Not cool in my book.

Ductapeman · Aug 29, 2006

"I'm going to violate some laws, and intrude on someone's personal property, and it'll be okay because I'm an artist." Oooookay-- (There are places I know of where if you try that you will be shot at, and not with cameras, and I doubt they will care if you are an "artist" or not. Be careful, and please don't tell me you did/are going to do this, all right?

John_05 · Aug 30, 2006

the only place ive had a problem with my being there (in NY) was on railroad tracks, but i can understand that.

ive been to a few cemeteries here, and i was only asked to leave once. i dont watch much tv, and its been so long since ive read a newspaper i almost forget what one looks like, and apparently there had been some vadalism in the cemetery i was in. if that hadnt happened, im sure the police wouldnt have had a problem with me being there. like ive said in a couple other posts, they know me pretty well now, and they know my intentions. combine that with the fact im 6'1", almost 270 pounds, and not the friendliest looking person, and i guess they assume my presence alone would scare off any delinquents. im pretty pale in complexion, so i can see their point. i must look spooky in a dark cemetery at night. :lmao:

all kidding aside, ive shot from alot of places you would think they would prefer people to not be like roof tops, the top of parking ramps, empty streets, parks after sunset, etc. as long as youre pleasant with any police or security people to encounter, more often then not, they will treat you the same way back. you will run into the occasional jerk that only wants to exert his authority, but leaving and coming back in a day or 2 is much better then getting into an argument with police or security. i know people just want to maintain the rights they have had for eons, but it isnt always a good idea to try to tell a police officer the law. most all will assume because of their position, they know more about the law then anyone else. we all know that isnt always the case, but you will never get a cop to believe it, or admit to it. i will admit ive gotten a little "mouthy" with the police, but in the end it does no good. you are just wasting time you could be spending finding a new location to shoot from, and your making yourself look less than friendly in the eyes of the police. i prefer to just leave, and then come back another time.

ive never had the experience of the police wanting or threatening to take my cameras, but i will say this. if they want to take my gear, they better have a warrant. i refuse to hand anything to anyone that ive saved for years to get. we all know if something happened to your equipment while in "police custody", they would never admit they broke it, and you would be stuck replacing it yourself. i would be more then happy to accompany my gear to the shift commander or whoever is in charge so they can look at the pics ive shot (digital), but theres no way im handing anything to them to take. it either goes home with me, or never leaves my hands. as for film, if they want a roll of film, so be it. ill rewind it, and hand it to them. the film i buy is not expensive, but they had better plan on giving me prints of whatever they develop. :lmao: