Discussion in 'Photographic Discussions' started by Village Idiot, Sep 9, 2010.
From Carlos Miller's blog
At the risk of a flame war, I do think we need to be sensitive to the issue. That doesn't mean our freedoms should be taken away, but if we're sensitive to things such as this, it goes a lot further towards being allowed access.
How many pros or advanced amateurs would be taking pictures through the fence anyway?
Approach the airport, TSA, whatever, and obtain clearance to take the photos you want to take. If you ask permission and go through their proper channels, I bet you get access and don't get hassled. You might even get escorted! Or get access to the other side of the fence! I just don't see the need to be a rebel when you can probably get exactly what you want just by asking and giving them a good reason for the request. Don't start out with major airports- like anything else, start out small and demonstrate past experience in this field, and you'll have a leg to stand on when requesting access. Also remember that (I believe) most airports are actually private property, which means you need to ask permission anyway.
I was an amateur radio operator who volunteered with our county Office of Emergency Management- on 9/11 I was in an Emergency Operations Center during the attack- it was scary and surreal. We saw the same videos the public saw, but we were also talking to the responders who were going into NY. In the years that followed, we were privy to a lot of information from Homeland Security that the public never heard. You gain a large respect for the security problems at hand, especially around airports.
Just my f/2.
Ofcourse you MUST be a terrorist if your taking photos of planes and wearing a fleece hoody because maybe it's a little cold outside but not cold enough to wear a toque or a jacket.
I dont want to get into my feelings in general about the department of homeland security, because this is the wrong place for it imo.
I will say that from a photographers perspective this truly is ridiculous. Taking pictures of aircraft is a hobby of many people. Has doing so ever caused any harm? I doubt it.
My views on this also take into account that I work at a U.S. military airfield in Japan. I know all of the rules/regulations concerning access to our flight line.
They do not allow photography physically on the flight line, but directly outside of it they do (up to the fence). From my experience the U.S. Air Force security forces will not bother photographers, unless they were physically on the flight line.
I dont see how taking pictures of aircraft could even benefit a terrorist. You can find pictures of specific aircraft all over the internet. You can also find detailed specifications and information on them as well.
Maybe I am missing something though...
A terrorist isn't usually taking pictures of the aircraft. They're taking pictures of building layouts, security measures, guard positions, etc.
Despite the media's treatment of the TSA, most TSA security could tell the difference between an amateur hobbyist and a terrorist in about 3 seconds.
And this is the problem with the ad. It's depicting the guy in the hoodie that is obviously using a DSLR with a large lens as suspicious. I wear a hoodie 90% of the time that I need to wear something warm. I know a lot of people that do.
How many terrorist are going to be standing at a fence with a DSLR with a large telephoto lens and be completely noticeable?
Any smart person that is going to be conducting surviellance is going to be doing so covertly.
And why would a terroist eve go out in the cold to photograph? Google Earth gives them maps of any installation they would want to attack. It's a far better tool than a large DSLR. Maybe they should make an ad saying that if you see some one using Google Earth that you should report them.
That's what I'm getting at. They're trying to sway the public's opinion to generally be suspicious of photographers. It's like putting up an ad that says report people with red hair, because the IRA blew people up.
Don't get me wrong- I agree with you. I'm merely suggesting that we need to be sensitive to the issue of security around installations such as this.
I do agree the ad stinks. You're absolutely right- the chances of a terrorist standing by the fence in a hoodie with a big ol' camera are probably slim. They would be more covert, in a car, and with a 10 megapixel point-and-shoot. Stop, a few quick pix, and then gone. The ad is not accomplishing its intended mission.
Google Earth- no, not a substitute for a ground level photograph.
A friend works for one of the major US airlines....there, the joke about TSA is that it means "thousands standing around". TSA is held in exceptionally low esteem by veteran airlines managers....and with this idiotic poster, it's obvious why...an incredible lack of brains must indeed permeate TSA, based on the stories and anecdotes I've been told.
The poster would be more effective showing someone playing a flight sim on a pc. What dopes
Google Earth does provide ground level photos. I know because I am in one.
I'm not a Google Earth user so I can't really comment. But I'm sure they're not updated more than every few weeks/months, no?
You have to understand the way these guys operate... they may take a picture of a truck that's parked in the same place every day, then add a comment with an arrow (place package here ->) or a picture of a guard (watch out for this guy, he eats his lunch in this spot). Stuff like that.
Anyway, I think we're discussing two different things at this point. I agree the poster really isn't that good, doesn't accomplish its intended mission, and the whole campaign is probably ill-conceived.
However, the message of awareness is a good one. I was on a flight this year where someone left an unattended bag in the waiting area at the gate. Everyone was nervous and on edge. We spoke up and security took care of it. They found the guy playing video games 200 feet from his bag. Idiot almost closed the airport.
This anecdote is a good example of the stupid,blind,idiotic fear promulgated by these morons at TSA...OMG--IMAGINE--at an airport where 20,000 bags come through every day, as five to six thousand people board flights and get off flights, from all over the world--SOMEBODY leaves ONE of 20,000 pieces of luggage unattended for five to, OMG maybe even 10 whole minutes!!! OMG--that must mean there's a TERRORIST!!!!!!! (Uh, no....somebody needs a potty break, has to make a phone call, has to run after a wandering child...forgets his/her bag, needs to sit down,etc). Nope...unattended bag equals TERROR AND DEATH!
Idiocy and paranoia.
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