where did the speckles come from?

[Grandpa Ron]

As I was enlarging a section of a black eyed Susan 4x5 negative photo, I notices some speckles. As you can see in the blow up there are many.

At first I thought it was dust, then I realized it was too small for dust. Plus it was on every negative. Could it be a developer/film/ fixer reaction?

The developer was fresh mixed from a bottle of Rodinal on the shelf for 2 years. The fixer was fresh mixed from fixer that had been on the shelf for a year.

I have never seen this before.

This is Arista 400 EDU 4x5 film.
50:1 Rodinal developer for 10 minutes.

 

[greybeard]

Looks like dust on the negative

 

[vintagesnaps]

That's what I'm wondering. I haven't done darkroom work in awhile and it seems like if I got dust spots they were fewer and larger, but that's all I can think of. Did you rinse the negs? or if they were already dry did you use a rocket blower or dust gun, etc.?

I never had anything quite like this either and don't know what else it would be. Did you hold the negs up to a light or put them on a light box to see?

 

[480sparky]

Are the images you're posting scans of the negs or digital images of the prints?

 

[greybeard]

Are the images you're posting scans of the negs or digital images of the prints?

The fact that he mentions the negative, developer and Rodinal is pretty much a give away that it was an image from a negative.

 

[480sparky]

The fact that he mentions the negative, developer and Rodinal is pretty much a give away that it was an image from a negative.

Yeah, I get that it's an analog negative. But a scan of the negative and a scan of an analog print will produce two different results and the source of the specks can be two different things.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

The negatives are digitized with my digital camera on a light box.

But the plot thickens. I decided to look at each negative a second time, and to my surprise only 5 were speckled.

I had 10 negatives 9 photos and one blank sheet of film.
I have a Yankee tank that will hold twelve 4x5 sheets.
I prefer to double space them so I only load a max of 6 sheets.
In this case I loaded 5 sheets, developed, stopped and fixed them, then rinsed them for 20minutes.
Well the first 5 were rinsing I ran the second five.

All prints were well rinsed and dipped in photo-flow and hung to dry.
This is my normal procedure.

Now comes the kicker.

5 of the 10 photos have the speckles the other five do not. I did not keep track of which were first or second batch.

Though I rarely have to do much enlargement to a 4x5 negative, I have never encountered this before.

At this point all I can do is assume something happened either with the first batch or when I clean and dried the tank for the second batch.

Another mystery I can attribute to the large format elves.

 

[greybeard]

The negatives are digitized with my digital camera on a light box.

But the plot thickens. I decided to look at each negative a second time, and to my surprise only 5 were speckled.

I had 10 negatives 9 photos and one blank sheet of film.
I have a Yankee tank that will hold twelve 4x5 sheets.
I prefer to double space them so I only load a max of 6 sheets.
In this case I loaded 5 sheets, developed, stopped and fixed them, then rinsed them for 20minutes.
Well the first 5 were rinsing I ran the second five.

All prints were well rinsed and dipped in photo-flow and hung to dry.
This is my normal procedure.

Now comes the kicker.

5 of the 10 photos have the speckles the other five do not. I did not keep track of which were first or second batch.

Though I rarely have to do much enlargement to a 4x5 negative, I have never encountered this before.

At this point all I can do is assume something happened either with the first batch or when I clean and dried the tank for the second batch.

Another mystery I can attribute to the large format elves.

Rodinal, as I remember, is very picky about agitation. I used to use it with 35mm Kodak panitomic X (asa 32) but, I had to shoot it at asa 25. It was very good at handling high contrast subjects and bringing out fine detail. I found it just too unpredictable and ended up switching to Kodak D-76 and HC-110. They never let me down.

 

[480sparky]

Dust on the light box surface?

 

[webestang64]

Show us the actual negative with the spots so we can see them or we have no idea what to tell you.

And 20 minute wash? Not long enough.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Okay here are some of the negatives . These are 4x5, Arista 400 EDU B&W.

I reviewed my process. The developer, stop, and fixer were made up into 62 oz. batches. The tank hold 55oz.

The first 5 film sheets. Were loaded into the Yankee developer tank.
2 minutes in distilled water slowly agitated to remove green anti-halation coating.
10 minutes in 50:1 old to Rodinal, 2 years old about 1/3 bottle, agitate for first 30 seconds then 20 seconds every 30 seconds.
2 to 3 minutes in stop bath with 3 or 4 mild agitations
8 minutes in 4:1 fixer and distilled water. The half bottle was was 6 or 8 month old. Some particles on the bottom of bottle.
Rinsed for 20 minute minimum, dipped in photo-flow hung to dry.

The second batch of 5 film sheets.
Dry the developer tank tank and film holder, then load film.
reuse the anti-halation bath for 2 minute soak and mild agitation.
Reuse the 50:1 Rodinal developer. (I mixed 1 1/4 ozs. of developer with 60 ozs. of distiller water which should be more than enough for 10 sheets of 4x5 film.)
reused the stop bath
reused the fixer. Again, 62 ozs of fixer should be enough for 10 sheet of film.
Rinse for 20 minutes.

This is pretty much my standard procedure. I use either Rodinal or HC-110 because they both have long shelf life.

Here a three of the the negatives which were digitized with a light table and a tripod mounted digital camera. They were not digitized in any particular order.

The first is a black eyed Susan which looks fine until I zoomed in on the flower.

The second is a wooden bridge, again to looks good until you zoom in on it.

Finally a second shot of the bridge with no speckles.

Sorry to be so long winded but I have been thinking and re-thinking the process and something must have happened between the first and second batches of five films. I have no idea of what it was.

Had I not decided to zoom in on the flower, I might never have notice it.

 

[Original katomi]

It’s been a long time since I have done film del&print but those specs reminds me of a problem
at the time I had a darkroom in parents loft, the Chemicals were to hot
i don’t see any temp control in your process.....
but as I say it’s been a long time and maybe photo chemistry has changed

 

[webestang64]

8 minutes in 4:1 fixer and distilled water. The half bottle was was 6 or 8 month old. Some particles on the bottom of bottle.

That worrys me. Old fix for sure. Why 4:1? I have never heard of that. Mine is Ilford Rapid (replenished for freshness as I process 150/200 rolls a month) stock 2-5 minutes.

reuse the anti-halation bath for 2 minute soak and mild agitation.

Should have used fresh, that could be your "differance". I just pre-wash in tap water, never have a problem.

Rinsed for 20 minute minimum

I wash film for 40 minutes minimum.

2 to 3 minutes in stop bath

I do not use stop bath, not that you do is wrong. I just find it a waste of money and too toxic to bother. I just have regulated development times to compensate for a 2 min rinse with water.

My thoughts. To me it seems that it was the reused pre-wash (!) or the fixer or not washing long enough. My bet is a combo of those 3 things.

 

[garygruber]

Looks like dust on the negative

not dust. I have seen this before. It is very possible that very soft water

Okay here are some of the negatives . These are 4x5, Arista 400 EDU B&W.

I reviewed my process. The developer, stop, and fixer were made up into 62 oz. batches. The tank hold 55oz.

The first 5 film sheets. Were loaded into the Yankee developer tank.
2 minutes in distilled water slowly agitated to remove green anti-halation coating.
10 minutes in 50:1 old to Rodinal, 2 years old about 1/3 bottle, agitate for first 30 seconds then 20 seconds every 30 seconds.
2 to 3 minutes in stop bath with 3 or 4 mild agitations
8 minutes in 4:1 fixer and distilled water. The half bottle was was 6 or 8 month old. Some particles on the bottom of bottle.
Rinsed for 20 minute minimum, dipped in photo-flow hung to dry.

The second batch of 5 film sheets.
Dry the developer tank tank and film holder, then load film.
reuse the anti-halation bath for 2 minute soak and mild agitation.
Reuse the 50:1 Rodinal developer. (I mixed 1 1/4 ozs. of developer with 60 ozs. of distiller water which should be more than enough for 10 sheets of 4x5 film.)
reused the stop bath
reused the fixer. Again, 62 ozs of fixer should be enough for 10 sheet of film.
Rinse for 20 minutes.

This is pretty much my standard procedure. I use either Rodinal or HC-110 because they both have long shelf life.

Here a three of the the negatives which were digitized with a light table and a tripod mounted digital camera. They were not digitized in any particular order.

The first is a black eyed Susan which looks fine until I zoomed in on the flower.

View attachment 268229

The second is a wooden bridge, again to looks good until you zoom in on it. View attachment 268230

Finally a second shot of the bridge with no speckles. View attachment 268231

Sorry to be so long winded but I have been thinking and re-thinking the process and something must have happened between the first and second batches of five films. I have no idea of what it was.

Had I not decided to zoom in on the flower, I might never have notice it.

First and foremost, 4x5 film should not be processed in a tank. It is nearly impossible to get consistent development, especially in the high values. I use processing tubes (one sheet of film per tube), which should still be available on eBay. Trays work fine also. Constant agitation is required for sheet film. This usually means around a 30% reduction in posted processing times. The pre-wash you are using is essential.

black spots on a print are almost always caused by a PH imbalance in the water used to mix the developer, but I have never seen that with Rodinal. Whites spots (on the print) occur AFTER to film ha been processed. I've been a pro since 1967 and your spots are interesting. I've never seen that much dust on a negative before.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I want to thank everyone for the comments and suggestions.

Over time I have found,
That both the filling and the emptying of the developing tank takes 25 to 30 seconds.
When filled to overflowing the tank l takes 55 oz. (1.6 L) of liquid. (I usually make 1/2 gal (1.8L) of solution at a time.
When filled, the top of the sheet film is submerged almost an inch (22 mm) beneath the solution.

After draining the antihalation water, I pour in the developer until it overflows the tan.
Then I start the timer, shake and agitate to remove any bubbles and continue side to side agitation for about 45 seconds.
This if followed by a10 second agitation every 30 seconds.

The last 30 seconds of the time in solution include the draining time. I prefer 6 minutes or longer of development time to allow for the fill and empty time.

The process seems to be consistent and works well, with no bubbles or streaking. Fortunately my basement hovel stays about 62 to 68 degrees year round so only minimal water bath adjustments are needed. If I had to do this often I would perhaps need a more efficient method.

I have tried tray developing, but I found that doing more than three sheets at a time, in total darkness, was too cumbersome for me.