2nd Photographer Rates

[soundwavephoto]

I usually shoot weddings by myself but one of my brides for next year is looking for a second shooter and I don't have any idea what is fair to pay them. What would some of you guys think is fair? Also I may want to send him out on his own if he does a good job. Then if I sent him out alone i am also wondering what is a fair rate. Any help is appreciated

Marie

 

[manaheim]

I'm a second shooter. I help a family member shoot and I do it basically for peanuts, but that's because 1> He's a family member and needs someone to help that he can trust and he knows I'm no slouch, and 2> It's building some experience for me. But, basically, I earn about $10-15 an hour for the work, not including gas money to get there and back. Pretty bad, actually. (I'm still happy to do it, but you really have to think of it in terms of how much you make per hour or you're fooling yourself)

As far as what you should charge (and what you should pay the second shooter), I'd say you want to charge some percentage of what your rate is, and then pay the second shooter a good percentage of that. Perhaps a good starting point is like 30% of your base rate, and then give your second shooter 80% of that. So if you charge $3,000, add $1,000 to it and give your second shooter $800. Something like that.

Some modifiers...

- Does your second shooter get to keep rights to his images? Take some small percentage off. 10%? ($80)
- Do you expect to edit the images from your second shooter? Take some percentage off... 20% maybe. ($160)
- Will your second shooter be only shooting a partial day? Take some percentage off... 20-30%, depending.
- Does your shooter have no experience (-20-30%), some experience (no change), or tons of experience (+20-30%)

Just some "from the hip" thoughts on it.

 

[soundwavephoto]

Good tips. Now what would you think if the guy goes out alone? I want to add another photographer to our company but have no idea what's a fair rate/hour.

 

[mwcfarms]

Im second shooting for someone and its $20 an hour to start. If it works out well its going to go to $30 an hour. She pays my mileage as well for weddings events outside of her location. Some people pay more as well depending on experience. No rights to images though as I am a contractor for her event.

 

[soundwavephoto]

Also I shoulda clarified above. If the photographer goes put alone he'a responsible for just taking the shots. I would do all the editing and albums and so on

 

[Big Mike]

Welcome to the forum.

The pay range for this type of thing is really quite wide. There are plenty of people who will second shoot for free, just for the experience and/or the portfolio material. And if you are really good and well known, then there are probably people willing to help just for the mentoring aspect.

For the most part, the more experienced and/or the better they are...the more you'll have to (or should) pay them. For example, if they are just helping out a little bit, getting a few extra shots, then that may not be worth much. But if they are fully competent, and could cover the entire wedding on their own (should you have an emergency, for example) then that is something worth paying for. Part of that is whether or not they have their own equipment...including a good range of quality lenses and a backup body/flash etc.

Do they have their own transportation? Just this last Saturday, I was second shooting for one of the best photographers in my area and he blew out a tire on his car (and foolishly left his lug nut key at home). Luckily I was there and we just transferred everything to my car and carried on for the day.

Some other aspects that may affect how much you pay them might be...are they just second shooting, or are they just assisting you or is it both etc? I've heard of some second shooters who are only interested in getting their own shots. When I'm second shooting, my goal is to help the main photographer to provide the best wedding photos to the client. If that means holding a light stand, or a reflector, or just adjusting the dress between shots...then that's what I'll do.

Also, what happens with the images they shoot? This is likely a 'work for hire' situation, so you should own the copyright to the images. (best to use a second shooter contract) But you might allow them to use their photos for their own portfolio...maybe with a stipulation that they can't make them public until after the client gets their photos from you.

As for them shooting solo weddings (for your company), that should likely command a higher price than just second shooting. They won't be doing the editing (not to mention the client meetings, sales, marketing, etc.) but they will have the responsibility for someone's wedding photos and they will be representing you & your company. So you really have to be sure that they are trustworthy & reliable etc.

Think about whether you would have them as an employee or just as a sub-contractor....as the accounting/business aspect will likely be different for you. In my case, I have my own company and when I second shoot, I'm a sub contractor and give the main photographer an invoice for my services.

 

[KmH]

This is likely a 'work for hire' situation,

Here in the US it would likely NOT be a 'work for hire' situation, as the second shooter is likely to be considered an independent contractor, not an employee. However, the photographer business owner can scertainly tipulate such in the second shooters contract.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

Important: The term “employee" here is not really the same as the common understanding of the term. For copyright purposes, it means an employee under the general common law of agency. This is explained in further detail below. Please read about this at “Employer-Employee Relationship Under Agency Law.”

Employer–Employee Relationship Under Agency Law

If a work is created by an employee, part 1 of the copyright code’s definition of a work made for hire applies. To help determine who is an employee, the Supreme Court in CCNV v. Reid identified certain factors that characterize an “employer-employee” relationship as defined by agency law:
1 Control by the employer over the work (e.g., the employer may determine how the work is done, has the work done at the employer’s location, and provides equipment or other means to create work)
2 Control by employer over the employee (e.g., the employer controls the employee’s schedule in creating work, has the right to have the employee perform other assignments, determines the method of payment, and/or has the right to hire the employee’s assistants)
3 Status and conduct of employer (e.g., the employer is in business to produce such works, provides the employee with benefits, and/or withholds tax from the employee’s payment)

These factors are not exhaustive. The court left unclear which of these factors must be present to establish the employment relationship under the work for hire definition,
but held that supervision or control over creation of the work alone is not controlling. All or most of these factors characterize a regular, salaried employment relationship, and it is clear that a work created within the scope of such employment is work made for hire (unless the parties involved agree otherwise).

My emphasis with the underlining.

 

[bennielou]

It varies. I pay what in the business would be considered to be decently. My current shooter gets $250, all the education time he would like from me, and his images to use in his port. Others recieve only education time, or education and a few bucks for gas. It really depends on the shooter and where they are in their career. On occassions, I have people that come in and pay to shoot. It really depends.

 

[dmtx]

It depends on who supplies the equipment. If you want the shooter to have a great camera + len(s), then expect to pay extra.