450D to 7D or 70D

[Muzzy00uk]

Hi Folks

I'm looking up upgrade my 450D and had narrowed it down to the 7D but having gone to a local camera shop i was advised to go for the 70D because there maybe a new version of the 7D coming soon and i fear this might be a little expensive for me.

So... the question is which is better?

Price wise they are about the same so don't need to worry to much about that but its features and how the cameras perform etc. Ive looked on dpreview and there really isn't much in it so I'm starting to lean towards the 70D but appreciate any advise you can give.

I do a lot of nature and wildlife shots but looking to do landscapes, portraits, macro and stock shots if that helps.

Thanks

Steven

 

[jaomul]

This is a debate which has owners split. The 7d is slightly more rugged, has a slightly more customisable autofocus for still pictures and is rated slightly faster fps. I had one and liked it.

The 70d is newer, with a supposedly slightly better higher mp sensor, similar but slightly simpler less customisable autofocus, class leading dslr video focus and a touchscreen. It's newer tech. If I was buying today it would be the 70d.

 

[Big Mike]

By the specs, they do appear to be very similar.
The 70D does have the edge in a few things, like a newer version of the processor, more pixels, articulating screen etc.
The 7D still shoots a faster burst.

One thing to note, is that the 7D uses CF cards while the 70D uses SD cards. So with the 70D, you could reuse any cards you already have.

The 7D has a fairly advanced auto focus system, which was one of the main reasons someone would choose it. I'm not really familiar with the 70D, so I don't know if it has the same AF system.

And yes, I would expect a new version of the 7D to be along shortly, maybe this summer/fall....and yes, it will probably be a bit more expensive.

Based on the type of shooting you mentioned. I'm thinking that the 70D, with it's articulating screen, might be the more preferred option.

But taking a step back, what is it about your 450D that you find lacking?

 

[Muzzy00uk]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies. very helpful!!
I wasnt able to play around with the 7D so not sure if the focus is the same either but i will before i decide to buy. the 70D is definitely more sophisticated that on the 450D.

Big Mike, the 450D is a great little camera and has taken some really nice shots but i find the burst mode is a little slow and although 9 focus points is nice 19 would allow for more accurate pictures i think. pretty sure image quality will be a lot better as well. nothing to major, just little things.

 

[minicoop1985]

I've got a 7D, and I'm probably (definitely) biased. The autofocus is absolutely fantastic. The magnesium body feels just plain solid in the hand-much moreso than the 70D, in my opinion. The 70D has a lot of features that are geared towards video, like the fancy split-pixel phase detection AF for live view mode, and the swivel screen. Also, in my opinion, a touch screen would slow me down drastically. This is why I went for the 7D over the 70D, but I highly advise playing around with them both before plunking down the cash. There's valid reasons to choose either one over the other, depending on what you want to accomplish.

 

[TCampbell]

The 70D and 7D almost have the same focus system... there are some nuances. They both have a 19 point AF system with all the AF points in the same locations. On a 7D you can alter the size of AF points... on a 70D you can't.

e.g. suppose I'm focusing on someone's eye using a VERY low focal ratio (e.g. such as an f/1.2 lens) and depth of field is so thin that I want to make sure the camera locks focus on the iris and not on some other facial feature nearby ... but not technically at the same focused distance -- such as an eyebrow. On a 7D you can tell the camera to use "spot" AF and this reduces the area that the camera will use on the AF point when evaluating focus (the target needs to offer enough contrast to lock focus on that tiny area).

On a 70D, you don't get "spot" focus. You can use single point... but it'll just be standard size AF point and you don't have the ability to tell it to use only a tiny concentrated area of that single point.

That's what I mean by "nuances". On the surface they appear to be the same system until you dig into the details.

The 70D is a mid-range body (not quite "pro" quality, but better than entry-level quality). It's controls are laid out more like a pro body but it doesn't have the ruggedization and usually would have either fewer features and or a "lite" version of a feature. The 70D's really big new advancement is it's dual-pixel CMOS AF system. Normally a DSLR camera can only do phase-detect AF if the reflex mirror is down because the focus sensors aren't on the image sensor... they are separate sensors (usually on the floor of the camera) and require that the mirror bounce some light into them in order to function. When the reflex mirror is up (in liveview or video modes) the camera has to use "contrast detect" AF because it can't use the phase-detect sensors. Contrast-detect AF is much slower and involves iterating to focus (test contrast, adjust focus, re-test contrast to see if focus got better or worse... if worse, reverse directions and focus the other way... if better, then keep iterating until best contrast can be achieved). But this iterating means it's not only slower... but if you're shooting video it means you see the camera "hunt" to re-focus during video shooting. The 70D actually has embedded focus sensors and beam splitters right on the imaging chip. It can do "phase detect" AF (just like the main focus sensors) even in liveview mode. This makes it very fast and it's able to do continuous AF while shooting video AND not have focus hunt. It's very fast and accurate. That makes this a highly desirable camera for those who want to do DSLR video.

If you're not doing video... then it's really a more modestly evolved model than it's predecessor... faster frame rate... more AF points... WiFi (you can use Canon's smart-phone app to remotely control the camera). Since it does have a new sensor (it does not use the same sensor as the 7D, 60D, and most Rebels that used Canon's 18MP sensor) Canon did slightly improve it's ISO / noise performance but from what I've read it's only slight (well... from your 450D it'll be dramatic... but from anyone who owns a T2i or higher model camera it wouldn't be anything that jumps off the page.)

BTW -- if you do still want a 7D, usually the release of the replacement product causes a noticeable drop in price of the product being replaced. E.g. when the 5D II used to sell for $2500... until the 5D III released. Even though the 5D III came out at a significantly higher price point, so many people were selling their old 5D II bodies to buy 5D III bodies that it caused a noticeable drop in demand for the 5D II and the price dropped by hundreds of dollars (even for a new body -- to say nothing of all the perfectly good used bodies that suddenly started to flood the market.)

So... if you want that 7D anyway, you might just play the waiting game until a 7D II shows up.

 

[lambertpix]

Be careful not to get caught up in the "there's a new version coming" game -- that's been known to paralyze people for years.

Beyond that, both the 7D and the 70D are great products. The 70D has some great video features and most of the other capabilities of the 7D. One of the features I'd personally miss in the 70D vs. the 7D is the camera user settings -- there are three slots on the 7D and only one on the 70D. IMO, these are one of the most under-appreciated features in Canon's mid- to high-end cameras. The 7D also has an extra joystick control on the back vs. the 8-way switch on the dial -- probably not a big deal once you get used to it.

When I stepped up from a 40D to the 7D, the 19 focus points weren't as important to me because of the actual count as much as the extra configurability around them. I can see that the 70D has the same arrangement of points, and I assume that a lot of the same abilities are present, but for me, the big benefit of all those point is being able to change how they work to suit what I'm shooting. Single-point, obviously, is helpful for things that aren't moving, and you want to make sure you're comfortable with the controls that let you pick the point quickly (otherwise, you're not going to use it very often). Beyond that, though, there are several modes that let me pick different zones (that hit any point in that zone) or expansion points.

All this stuff is helpful to you as long as (1) you understand how it works, and (2) the controls of the camera facilitate you picking the right mode very quickly when you need it. The extra focus controls on the 7D did take a little time for me to learn -- I actually had to (gasp!) open the manual for a couple minutes to figure out which buttons I needed to use. Now, however, I can change focus modes with the camera up to my eye, which is something I find pretty valuable.

Honestly, I think you'd probably be very happy with either of these cameras. If you've enjoyed your 450D, both the 7D and 70D will be great upgrades.

 

[Muzzy00uk]

Thanks guys, i appreciate your feedback. Either one is going to be a huge upgrade from what I have so I'll be happy either way.

I'll have a play with the 7D first and see what that's like and I'll need to work out if I'm likely to use the extra features the 70D has and then go from there.

Oh tcampbell the price for the 7D has dropped by about £300 in the UK so think canon are doing what you said so you never know the new 7D might make an appearance soon �� would be nice to wait and get that but I think it's going to be out of my price range.

Thanks again and if anyone has anything else to add feel free, opinions and experiences from the pros/experienced is always welcome.