5D MII Video mode, use limitations.

[Ls3D]

Completely skipping over opinions about DSLR's having video capabilities, does anyone care to discuss the published sample videos and issues related to using the 5D MII to capture 1080P video?

Topics could include:

AE lock, and stability of exposure.
User settings NOT available in movie mode.
Any problems with smearing during moderately fast pans (a lot of lock down samples out there).
Auto ISO (remember movie specific)
IS... battery chewing digital steadycam or definitely leave off...
Burn rate of camera used for video VS stills only.
Using H264 sources in post production.
Hardware requirements (workstations, powerful laptops) for 1920 workflows, etc..

If this thread gains any traction I could doll up this header with links to samples, the user manual (yes, I confess to studying it) etc.

This could be an exciting time as some will start receiving their cameras in Europe any minute now and can expand the knowledge base with actual examples and experiences.

Additionally we can see what Jim Jannard and the RED team have to announce on the 13th (Nov), and compare and contrast this with the 5D MII

I'm really excited to experience a full frame camera body, and the ability to crop and still have some data to work with.. but I would also like to get some constructive discussion going with my fellow videographers, aspiring cinematographers and editors.

-Shea:study:

 

[Steph]

I cannot really contribute to the discussion because I have no experience in video (with a dSLR or otherwise). However, I would be interested in knowing how people make videos without AF (I believe none of the current dSLRs can use AF in video mode. Am I right?). It seems really tricky to me to keep a moving subject in focus with MF while shooting a video. Any thoughts?

 

[Overread19 7]

I really am interested in this - but I think we just won't find out till we get them in our hands (I can dream ) to try. Certainly the limitations shown have also been shown to not be huge problems in the hands of a pro videographer so limitations they might be, but there are workarounds for many - but I think it will take time for people to learn how to use it best.

 

[Matthew Craggs]

Re: autofocus, I shoot video for weddings and always use manual focus, except when I am using a Glidecam.

The footage that is coming out of it looks wonderful, even if it is being produced using top notch lenses and professional videomakers with the intention of the making the camera look good.

The only practical purpose I can see for it using video is short films as an alternative to shooting film where you would be recording the audio separately anyways. The lack of audio inputs and limit of recording time makes it useless for me (weddings). It would be nice for detail shots, or bride and groom preps, but I can pick up a HV20 or HV30 and a Letus for less than a 5D MkII and have another camera that can be set up, locked off, and forgotten about at the ceremony or reception.

The other issue is that I hear it's useless handheld. Also, I am concerned about what photographers would think if I showed up to an event with a DSLR. From what I can tell most of you photo folks are irritated by us video folks and having another professional show up with the same rig has to be irksome.

That all being said, no-one can deny that what it can do, it does very well, and I'm already saving my aluminum cans so I can buy one in the future. I'll just use it for personal use.

 

[Village Idiot]

I believe the MKII can AF while in live view. There were some videos showing this iirc.

Re: autofocus, I shoot video for weddings and always use manual focus, except when I am using a Glidecam.

The footage that is coming out of it looks wonderful, even if it is being produced using top notch lenses and professional videomakers with the intention of the making the camera look good.

The only practical purpose I can see for it using video is short films as an alternative to shooting film where you would be recording the audio separately anyways. The lack of audio inputs and limit of recording time makes it useless for me (weddings). It would be nice for detail shots, or bride and groom preps, but I can pick up a HV20 or HV30 and a Letus for less than a 5D MkII and have another camera that can be set up, locked off, and forgotten about at the ceremony or reception.

The other issue is that I hear it's useless handheld. Also, I am concerned about what photographers would think if I showed up to an event with a DSLR. From what I can tell most of you photo folks are irritated by us video folks and having another professional show up with the same rig has to be irksome.

That all being said, no-one can deny that what it can do, it does very well, and I'm already saving my aluminum cans so I can buy one in the future. I'll just use it for personal use.

The 5D MKII has a mic input and has a built in mic and speaker. They're not made for XLR inputs of mics that need preamps, but they're there.

Keep in mind, it's a DSLR first and not a video camera. It's not geared towards videographers so much as photographers. I know that the features it has, such as a FF sensor and the ability to use quality glass for wide apertures and shallow DoF, are appealing towards the video crowd, it's not being marketed as a video camera that can take stills.

 

[Matthew Craggs]

I stand corrected on the mic input. That certainty makes it more appealing for video purposes, but like you said, it's not meant to be a camcorder.

 

[Ls3D]

The mic is a 'convenience' (monaural),.. when you shoot film (aka, rent an Arriflex) the audio is handled separately for example, although the 5Dm2 sample rate is good and XLR adapters abound. I think I will whisper notes into mine, like 'good take' - or dang, lost focus, aperture notes etc... DAT boy with the boom can handle the audio.

Useless without a tripod... So smearing is a problem then, or might be. This does not surprise me, an HD frame is pretty big and the sensor oversampling, crop and compression is just a fraction of what those Digic4 engines have to chew up.

Regarding autofocus, from the manual; Autofocusing during movie shooting is not recommended since it might momentarily throw the focus way off or change the exposure. That is a little different than completely disregarding it's use. With good light & contrast the AF button could be useful just as it is now. I imagine everyone has lost a still shot to AF (forgot it was on, or it found something else to focus on) and understands its use, and more importantly when to turn it off. Of course it will not track, and that is another thing I will record.. the click of me turning it off. :mrgreen:

Some of the hybrid experiences we have with the 5Dm2 will perhaps test our comfort levels,.. starting with why was I looking at a pan tilt head in the shop yesterday... or what is the photographer doing over there, he/she must really be into it! :lmao: Kinda like the guy who shows up on a Segway.

BTW - I hope we can skip quoting each other, defending beliefs with staunch postulations and typical thread fighting. Rather I would like to see field knowledge and logical ideas expressed that might help people decide if this investment might be the correct decision for them.

I think we have a good start. Many thanks for your thoughts. :thumbup:

-Shea

 

[keith204]

Completely skipping over opinions about DSLR's having video capabilities, does anyone care to discuss the published sample videos and issues related to using the 5D MII to capture 1080P video?

Topics could include:

AE lock, and stability of exposure.
User settings NOT available in movie mode.
Any problems with smearing during moderately fast pans (a lot of lock down samples out there).
Auto ISO (remember movie specific)
IS... battery chewing digital steadycam or definitely leave off...
Burn rate of camera used for video VS stills only.
Using H264 sources in post production.
Hardware requirements (workstations, powerful laptops) for 1920 workflows, etc..

If this thread gains any traction I could doll up this header with links to samples, the user manual (yes, I confess to studying it) etc.

This could be an exciting time as some will start receiving their cameras in Europe any minute now and can expand the knowledge base with actual examples and experiences.

Additionally we can see what Jim Jannard and the RED team have to announce on the 13th (Nov), and compare and contrast this with the 5D MII

I'm really excited to experience a full frame camera body, and the ability to crop and still have some data to work with.. but I would also like to get some constructive discussion going with my fellow videographers, aspiring cinematographers and editors.

-Shea:study:

I am particularly interested in

• Hardware Requirements - gotta figure out this one soon. I'll be building a desktop to handle this, and need to build it cheap, for obvious reasons. - Will a couple of 500gb SATA drives (separate from OS drive) be enough, or would a striped raid be mandatory?
• Software requirements - several people recommend Adobe Premiere Elements for starting out. The price is nice! Will it suffice?
• Auto ISO (how bad is the video when it bumps to 6400
• How are the pixels used for video recording spread out? Are all the pixels used, and then that video downsized? Or, does it only record 1920x1080 pixels, spread across the frame? Certainly it's not a 1920 cluster right in the middle, as obvious apparent focal length issues would arise.
• How long does it take to switch cards and return to video mode? 12 minutes to a 4GB card will only work for a certain group of videographers. Usable during a wedding? If it is a 3-second swap, then this could make a good floater camera, along with a couple stationery ones.
• Why 4GB max for video? Surely there's a reason. A 16gb card would do wonders.

Lots to play with!

 

[Ls3D]

RE: Hardware - Well you can download some of the samples and try some edits today, perhaps on your existing platform to gage what you may want in the future.

I'm running Core 2 Extreme @ 2.8 Ghz (X7900 CPU) with 4 gigs of ram* and definitely felt the weight of the HD frame when scrubbing and running some filters and color adjustments in After Effects. I'm not too concerned about this as I tend to work short format projects and can move to associate workstations when required and funded.

With Intel's nehalem just now shipping I don't mind waiting a while more, and for Mac folks the power mac will probably be updated with nehalem 'bloomfield' any week now. Either way the hardware question is usually the same, buy the fastest number cruncher you can afford. 4, 8 cores, raid zero + 1, all good for performance and hard on wallets. A few successes with what you have typically funds the larger purchases IME. HD edits suits (PC based) have never been cheaper, but still require expensive components and engineering.

I have no experience with premiere elements, and hardly ever use p-pro anymore, guess I'm more layers and effects / composite oriented over in AE.

RE: Sensor oversampling. If I were an engineer stuffing HD movies into the little mirror box I would drop those pixels like a hot potato!.. about 2 thirds of them gone from the equation. If they are using nearest neighbor or bilinear sampling for example, this would probably be handled by the Digic engine pretty easily, but my intuition is that simply tossing the extra data would produce higher dynamic range images than trying to smooth with logarithms. Perhaps the full frame luminance channel is used for other sub routines, things we will have to wait for white papers and competition to bring into the open.

Switching cards, I would guess 10 seconds..

4GB Sounds like a DOS relic, a limitation of the operating system they are running, OR...
Maybe your sensor reaches a critical temperature in that same time frame (doubt it, but I bet it is toasty by then)... My stupid XP32 OS* can not even see a full 4 gigs of ram, so that number sounds suspiciously like a 32 bit limitation - more speculation, but what the hizzle - just talking shop here.

BTW I would still want this camera w/o the video.

-Shea

 

[keith204]

I'll give it a whirl with my Gateway laptop (integrated graphics, but what the heck, I'll give it a go). 4GB RAM, Vista 64-bit, Core 2 Duo. The chipset is an intel965, which after a bit of googling, apparently people back in 2007 have used it for 1080p video editing.

I won't be doing video extensively, mainly stock videos...so I can handle a bit of rendering time....for a little while!

Same here - I'd buy this without video.

 

[Ls3D]

Yeah I imagine having two 8700 GT's in SLI was accelerating my user experience. I will have to try a composition with a few layers, maybe re-compress some output and see how that all goes.

I spotted some footage today (via engadget) that includes hand held shots and some work that is not so highly overproduced as the canon propaganda.

The shooter lets a sliding doorway shutter some bright reflected light, and this lets us see how the flare out is handled and the exposure recovered... not bad. In the first few seconds going up the escalator we can see what looks like a pop in the ISO or exposure. A bright light source near the top of the ride seems to blame, perhaps this is when the shootist first learned to AE lock.. not that I can know anything about it yet.

There is some aliasing to be spotted in the footage, but it is the typical near horizontal high contrast lines or certain tight patterns that scintillate, nothing new or unexpected there.

Around 2:56 as the train is passing through a lattice tunnel there is what looks like some dropped frames, or a hard cut.

The city crosswalk scene 3:50ish is interesting because of all the overexposed bright building, the people look good. What a turd of a hood with that car mount!

Around 5 minutes they go all rack focus crazy but the casual nature of the shoot lets us look for weaknesses in the video.. so I don't mind, this one time.

Will be interesting to monitor what people do in terms of a steadycam device.

-Shea

 

[skieur]

Getting back to basics, if you are serious about video, why are you NOT using a regular camcorder with HD? I think that the function of video on digital cameras was only designed for shooting video clips of limited length of the type that often ends up on Utube.

Moreover serious video of a longer length requires a lot of knowledge and or courses to produce anything of any value or worth watching. It also requires money. A thousand dollars a minute is the bottom cheap end of production cost on a video that is fairly amateur in terms of production values.

So content-wise, what would you be shooting that would make all the cost and time factors involved worthwhile?

skieur

 

[Ls3D]

I guess it was naive of me to expect people to NOT debate the inclusion of video in a DSLR.

A thousand dollars a minute is the bottom cheap end of production cost on a video that is fairly amateur in terms of production values.

OK, more excellent opinions... $60 thousand an hour for amateur work, must be from the UAE.

Please do not reply to this thread again. :thumbdown:

 

[skieur]

I guess it was naive of me to expect people to NOT debate the inclusion of video in a DSLR.



OK, more excellent opinions... $60 thousand an hour for amateur work, must be from the UAE.

Please do not reply to this thread again. :thumbdown:

You have NO experience at all. I directed one video at $12,000 for ten minutes. By the way, that was at a cheap rate. Another at 15 minutes was $56,000. Both were in Canada, of course. You obviously have no idea about costs in this area.

I was also not debating the inclusion of video in a DSLR. Perhaps you should read MORE CAREFULLY. I said it was included for the purpose of making video clips. You seem to be talking about more than simple video clips, so I was asking logically, why not use a camcorder.

Please read more carefully and don't respond in such a silly manner. :thumbdown:

skieur

 

[keith204]

**buying a 5D mkII and moving to Canada**