Adobe Subscription rates!!!

[Derrel]

The cost is not the only drawback...the constant need for an internet connection, to be pinged by Adobe servers, to allow the SW to work,is something a percentage of traveling users have mentioned. Not really a factor for me, but requiring internet connectivity so that one's leased SW works? I guess if one works at Adobe HQ, the idea of consistent, reliable 24/7/52/365 connectivity is a given.

A big hurricane or tornado, or a storm of some type, (snow, ice, wind, fire) that hits a major metro area and knocks out internet service for a few days could prove to be damaging.

 

[texxter]

For a long time people viewed computers and the software that makes them work as assets with residual value. Over the last several years it's shifted to a disposable asset, to be used over a period of time. I mean seriously how many still use a computer in excess of 5 years, can you expect software to be diferent?

This is true. Manufacturers of hardware and software have been moving to the "as-a-service" model where a subscription replaces a depreciable asset. At the same time software is being accessed from the cloud (my teenagers don't use Microsoft Office, only Google Docs, Sheets, etc) - this trend is unstoppable because it is good for the business. It's not always good for consumers.

I may be a minority, but I bought my iMac with software in mid 2010. I added some RAM and an SSD over time and it runs very well. The software, Photoshop CS4, LR 5, work well with my existing cameras. I am 100% satisfied with this setup, but Mac OSX is changing and creating application incompatibilities, to your point, so I will need to stop upgrading OSX as well at some point. In a year or two my setup will be frozen in time. If/when my camera fails or I have reasons to replace it, I will need to stand on my head to process those files, and I will probably be forced to replace the entire post-processing equipment, and that'll be painful, even with a subscription model. Alternatively I could replace a failed camera with a used unit of the same model and keep on going with my obsolete equipment trying to make good images.

I totally get the industry trend. Film cameras used to last a lifetime and now a camera lasts less than 5 years because new models provide so much more capabilities. Same with computers, software, storage,.... Still, I think there is something to be said about just owning a computer system that works for years with cameras that work for years, fully depreciated, with the focus being 100% on image making, not on equipment upgrades. I know it' not realistic, but one can dream.

 

[Derrel]

One of the biggest diffrerence berween Windoze and Mac users...the length of time they, on average, use hardware.

While Windoze boxes are now seen by many as disposables, many Mac users tend to keep their hardware much longer. And we have a different attitude about our devices. Right now, I am using a 2011 iMac.... still works, still runs the current Mac OS...I do not view my computers as throwaways...erm "disposable". I payed $1299 or $1499 for this computer in the summer of 2011...seven full years ago...

 

[smoke665]

@Derrel IRs provides guidelines for depreciating/expensing software and computer hardware. Currently on software under 50k it's 2 years and over 50k, 5 years same as hardware. That's another reason why the subscription model is more attractive for business in that it doesn't tie up large sums of cash and can be fully expensed in the year paid.

I know Mac has a reputation for longevity, but in the business world that isn't as important as cutting edge technology. We don't get attached to computers or equipment.

One thing I find disturbing is the constant chatter about how bad Adobe is. I've never been a big Adobe fan over the years but Lr and PS do what I want them to do, and I'm comfortable with what I pay for the service. If I wasn't I'd use one of the other alternatives out there, but I wouldn't bash Adobe because of their business model. It's a free market.

 

[JBPhotog]

IRS guidelines define the useful life of internally used software as 2 years.

If this is the same as it is in Canada that only refers to how soon a business can write it off as an expense not the useful life of the software.

Thankfully there are alternatives such as Capture One where you have an option of a full purchase with future proof updates or subscription models. Older versions of PhotoShop can easily handle tiff files generated by other Raw converters, Adobe doesn't have the be all end all in that domain.

 

[Derrel]

Adobe could become the next Kodak. Or the next Sears, or JC Penny. Or Circuit City. Or AMC. Or Pontiac.

 

[Derrel]

"We don't get attached to computers or equipment. "--

I would wager that nearly half of Adobe's revenue comes from the amateur/hobby market.

Let's see if Adobe is too big to fail.

Kodak was too big to fail. Sears was too big to fail, as were JC Penny, American Motors, Circuit City, and Pontiac. Once leaders, they are now merely shells of their former glory, or gone, and out of business entirely.

Adobe is acting like Kodak...once a world-wide, undisputed leader, they are now starting to be blind to the changes in their industry, and are starting to take it for granted that their customers will accept any amount of s**+ they attempt to force-feed them. At one time, Photoshop was the leading pixel editor in a market that they dominated with no real competition, no alternatives. That is not the case now... as it stands, for many consumers, the image editing available for free in phones has made huge strides in the last few years,and as we advance, I forsee the need for Photoshop to decline among the rank and file public.

 

[vintagesnaps]

How much is a Big Mac?? lol guess I don't have Big Mac attacks often enough to know.

Film cameras last more than a lifetime, I have cameras from someone else's lifetime. Our AMC Gremlin is long gone! but Derrel didn't you hear that Sears is coming back?!!

I don't subscribe to Photoshop. People said it was subscription only, but it wasn't. That seemed to have been a misconception at the time, and maybe still is. Did a quick search and Elements came up as available at a local store where I can go pick it up.

I will say it wasn't so easy to find on the Adobe website, had to scroll to the bottom under Products (so they aren't exactly promoting it) but it looks like I could buy an upgrade for just under $80 (which I think is what I did last time). I guess beyond Elements the options might be subscriptions; if people don't want that and buy Elements maybe Adobe would start offering different purchase options. Guess it's a matter of buying the basics or having to subscribe if you want more/different products and want to spend the money on it.

 

[Soocom1]

ESRI is the 900 lbs guerrilla in the GIS-Mapping world.

right now they are pushing ArcGIS pro which is totally web based and has told ALL users that concurrent licensing will be available for Desktop up to 2023.

ArcPro is NOT the best program, and moreover with the net shutdowns, blackouts and the like as a GOVERNMENT entity if the net goes down like when Amazon did in 2017, the system starts to slowly shut down. This is a licensing feature to "prevent" piracy.

The problem is that if that starts to systematically shut down. EMS looses its ability to see the data they rely on to do their job.

For us specifically, the LACK of internet connection in many parts of the county makes field collection still in the paper-pencil days.

The concept of web based and the IoT is a pie int he sky kumbya type thinking that has the Borg-ish One world collectivist mentality running amok.
The concept of a disconnected world is still very much with us and regardless of the mentality, will bite us hard if we don't have an analog backup.

I do not want to hear this blather that we need to "look forward". We did and were still having the issues that were present in the late 1980's.

Give a first class Carrington event and you might as well pull out the slide rules.

 

[smoke665]

IRS guidelines define the useful life of internally used software as 2 years.

If this is the same as it is in Canada that only refers to how soon a business can write it off as an expense not the useful life of the software.

Thankfully there are alternatives such as Capture One where you have an option of a full purchase with future proof updates or subscription models. Older versions of PhotoShop can easily handle tiff files generated by other Raw converters, Adobe doesn't have the be all end all in that domain.

Granted it is the ability to expense the cost, but the reality is that the software itself has certain built in obsolescence as technology advances. I can't remember when it started, but it's been a long time, that software companies at 3 years post purchase started sending out notices that they were discontinuing support. Again you could still use the software for a period of time, but eventually the functionality of it became useless.

Capture One is an alternative that I looked at and may at some point go to if the arrangement with Adobe becomes untenable. However, let's talk about Capture One, the price to buy unless you get the stripped down version, is pricey, mostly out of the reach of the hobbyist, and the subscription price the last time I checked was almost twice that of Adobe, and didn't offer as much for the buck. Yet no one seems upset with them for their business model.

Adobe doesn't have the be all end of course not, but I'd expand this to read "No software has to be the end all"

 

[Derrel]

'Again you could still use the software for a period of time, but eventually the functionality of it became useless.'

I have a legacy PowerMac G 4/450 that I use now ONLY for my old SCSI-connect Minolta 35mm film scanner...running OS 9.0.1 and Photoshop 4.0...still works...22 years or more "out of date"...

old hardware..old software...still works

 

[smoke665]

Adobe could become the next Kodak. Or the next Sears, or JC Penny. Or Circuit City. Or AMC. Or Pontiac.

I'd say the numbers don't bear this out. According to Statista, Creative Cloud subscribers rose from 1.44 million in 2013 to 12 million in 2017 and are projected to rise to 19.74 million in 2024. As of today, almost 90% of their income is recurring, with no sign of slowing. If you have a downturn in the economy which sale do you think will suffer first the guy trying to sell a $500 software package, or the guy selling a $9.99/month subscription.

I would advise you to check out the financial markets. Total revenue for Adobe is up 25.11% over a year ago, net income up 15.6% over a year ago. Think about this, if you had invested about $6500 in Adobe stock back then, you could have sold that investment for $26,871.00 today, a net gain of 313%. Even despite a slight decline in net earnings, Adobe still remains a darling of the hedge funds. I don't currently have Adobe in my portfolio, but over the years I've made enough on their business model, I don't begrudge them the $9.99/month.

I have a legacy PowerMac G 4/450 that I use now ONLY for my old SCSI-connect Minolta 35mm film scanner...running OS 9.0.1 and Photoshop 4.0...still works...22 years or more "out of date"..

And I bet I could find a few articles of clothing in your closet from the same period as well.I can top that I have a Commadore 64, an external 51/4 floppy drive, and several software disks. I'm not certain, but I suspect that it would also fire up if I wanted. The point on "functionality" is will it work in "today's" environment. Like my financial software, maintaining secure connections to my banks, brokerage, etc., are highly important. Sure I could go back to the old days of entering transactions, hand writing checks, doing manual transfers and entries, but why? One click operations allow me the ability to do things that would take me all day otherwise.

 

[Soocom1]

And I bet I could find a few articles of clothing in your closet from the same period as well.I can top that I have a Commadore 64, an external 51/4 floppy drive, and several software disks. I'm not certain, but I suspect that it would also fire up if I wanted. The point on "functionality" is will it work in "today's" environment. Like my financial software, maintaining secure connections to my banks, brokerage, etc., are highly important. Sure I could go back to the old days of entering transactions, hand writing checks, doing manual transfers and entries, but why? One click operations allow me the ability to do things that would take me all day otherwise.

Dont laugh.
That may be what saves the world!

56K is the way to go man.
Right On!

 

[smoke665]

Dont laugh.
That may be what saves the world!

I hope you're talking about the Commodore and not the clothes. There's some things from way back when that need to stay back there.

 

[Soocom1]

Dont laugh.
That may be what saves the world!

I hope you're talking about the Commodore and not the clothes. There's some things from way back when that need to stay back there.
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Man.. Dr Buzzkill to the rescue!!!