Another dissapointing review of the 7D

[Derrel]

The 7D was supposed to be a direct competitor for the Nikon D300, but then Nikon updated the D300 to the D300s. Here's a list of features, or rather, missing features in the 7D body. The thread is three pages long,and I was shocked to see that Canon STILL has not corrected some long standing problems with their controls/ergonomics. Like the fact that exposure compensation dialed in when the camera is in programmed mode reverts to baseline mode after every-single-frame-you-shoot!

Underwhelming 7D review from Dpreview [Page 1]: Nikon D300 - D100 Forum: Digital Photography Review

One of the things about the new dPreview official review of the 7D is that they list "four" (count 'em, four!) flaws with the camera. And they conveniently ignore that the camera's new focusing screen makes manual focusing almost impossible. As the reviewer points out, now that Amazon.com owns dPreview, the hard-hitting reviews Phil was famous for have disappeared,and the reviews are as the British say, "quite tepid". Amazon makes a huge amount of money selling cameras, so owning dPreview makes for a great way to funnel customers from the reviews right to Amazon.com

 

[RyanLilly]

The 7D was supposed to be a direct competitor for the Nikon D300, but then Nikon updated the D300 to the D300s. Here's a list of features, or rather, missing features in the 7D body. The thread is three pages long,and I was shocked to see that Canon STILL has not corrected some long standing problems with their controls/ergonomics. Like the fact that exposure compensation dialed in when the camera is in programmed mode reverts to baseline mode after every-single-frame-you-shoot!

Underwhelming 7D review from Dpreview [Page 1]: Nikon D300 - D100 Forum: Digital Photography Review

One of the things about the new dPreview official review of the 7D is that they list "four" (count 'em, four!) flaws with the camera. And they conveniently ignore that the camera's new focusing screen makes manual focusing almost impossible. As the reviewer points out, now that Amazon.com owns dPreview, the hard-hitting reviews Phil was famous for have disappeared,and the reviews are as the British say, "quite tepid". Amazon makes a huge amount of money selling cameras, so owning dPreview makes for a great way to funnel customers from the reviews right to Amazon.com

That's a nice list of erroneous arguments; most in that list are not problems, they are simply different design choices between manufactures, "cannot exposure bracket in Manual"...Really?....Really? Its Manual for crying out loud! Anyway differences of opinion and design choices aside, I for one appreciate that DPreview uses a standardized set of metrics for reviewing cameras, making it possible to compare, in at least a controled test enviroment, a camera to it predicessors, and competitors.

 

[DScience]

That's a nice list of erroneous arguments; most in that list are not problems, they are simply different design choices between manufactures, "cannot exposure bracket in Manual"...Really?....Really? Its Manual for crying out loud! Anyway differences of opinion and design choices aside, I for one appreciate that DPreview uses a standardized set of metrics for reviewing cameras, making it possible to compare, in at least a controled test enviroment, a camera to it predicessors, and competitors.

Sounds like you got a 7D, and are a little upset. :hug::

 

[musicaleCA]

That's a nice list of erroneous arguments; most in that list are not problems, they are simply different design choices between manufactures, "cannot exposure bracket in Manual"...Really?....Really? Its Manual for crying out loud! Anyway differences of opinion and design choices aside, I for one appreciate that DPreview uses a standardized set of metrics for reviewing cameras, making it possible to compare, in at least a controled test enviroment, a camera to it predicessors, and competitors.

Sounds like you got a 7D, and are a little upset. :hug::

If you actually read those pages on DPreview, well, you might just agree. I have to agree that a lot of those "faults" in the 7D listed there are biases against how Canon cameras operate.

Canon is very far behind Nikon as far as handling
and control go. There really isn't any comparison; all they have is a couple
of numbers that look better on paper. They have nothing on us in handling, nothing at all.

That's pure bias. The interfaces for Nikon and Canon cameras are worlds apart. Some people are comfortable with one and not the other. I for one feel lost and confused using Nikon's interfaces, whereas Canon's were completely intuitive to me. What a lark.

A few things in particular about that list stuck out as particularly hilarious and misguided. I'd be happy to go through the entire list if someone asks though.

Camera turns itself off on you

Yes? It turns off by itsownself! OMG! What a scandalous idea, to save power by having the camera go into a sleep mode when you aren't using it!

LCD panel blacked out when power off

Is this guy seriously suggesting that the camera's LCD display should be on, regardless of whether or not the power switch is set to on or off? Seriously?

Cannot bracket flash exposure

Yes you can. :lmao: This is just a difference between the two systems. You set flash exposure bracketing on the flash unit itself, not the camera. Oi vey.

Cannot use exposure bracketing if flash enabled

Patently untrue.

Any flexible-program shift in P mode cancelled by every shutter release

Patently untrue.

I really don't think this guy knows what he's talking about. I disagree RyanLilly. I think most of what that guy listed as cons are outright lies. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[battletone]

Is this guy seriously suggesting that the camera's LCD display should be on, regardless of whether or not the power switch is set to on or off? Seriously?

I think it is referring to the top LCD. That LCD takes the same amount of power as the old LCD watches...it will last a long time. A Maxxum5000 film camera I have confused me when I got it recently with some other lenses because it never turns "off".

I enjoyed this from a long time user of both systems. It talks about the top LCD too. He is a Canon shooter since 1999, and was a Nikon shooter for decades before that. He bought a full Nikon DSLR system to test out. Must be nice to have that kind of income.

 

[musicaleCA]

Is this guy seriously suggesting that the camera's LCD display should be on, regardless of whether or not the power switch is set to on or off? Seriously?

I think it is referring to the top LCD. That LCD takes the same amount of power as the old LCD watches...it will last a long time. A Maxxum5000 film camera I have confused me when I got it recently with some other lenses because it never turns "off".

Ah, well still, I think that's a bit of an odd expectation; perhaps Garbz could chime in because he seems to know a heck of a lot more about electrical engineering than I do. My thinking would be that having that top display on all the time would require the camera to constantly access it's RAM that it uses to store all the data displayed there. If, by turning off that display, Canon's engineers can eke out a little more power from the battery by thus shutting off more of the camera's internals when you're not using it, kudos to them. In any case it's really a moot point; half-depress the shutter and you're good to go.

 

[battletone]

Is this guy seriously suggesting that the camera's LCD display should be on, regardless of whether or not the power switch is set to on or off? Seriously?

I think it is referring to the top LCD. That LCD takes the same amount of power as the old LCD watches...it will last a long time. A Maxxum5000 film camera I have confused me when I got it recently with some other lenses because it never turns "off".

Ah, well still, I think that's a bit of an odd expectation; perhaps Garbz could chime in because he seems to know a heck of a lot more about electrical engineering than I do. My thinking would be that having that top display on all the time would require the camera to constantly access it's RAM that it uses to store all the data displayed there. If, by turning off that display, Canon's engineers can eke out a little more power from the battery by thus shutting off more of the camera's internals when you're not using it, kudos to them. In any case it's really a moot point; half-depress the shutter and you're good to go.

It wouldn't be hard for it to take a snapshot of the current settings/data and just display that. Those watches would last forever on those little coin batteries.

But in that link I put, the guy makes mention of looking at the memory card being inserted, battery remaining, the shots total and remaining, etc. I bet that full color 3" LCD on the back of my XSi uses about as much power just being turned on once to see that info than the Nikons top LCD uses in a month of staying on all the time.

 

[Derrel]

Well, seriously, the 7D, as a D300s competitor, lacks a lot of functionality that Nikon's D300 has had for two years. I will not respond directly to Ryan Lilly's angry outburst--but he does sound like a Canon user who might be a bit irked to hear about his favored brand's inability to handle or address pretty simple engineering problems.

For example: ONE, single white balance pre-set; competition has 4 user-definable pre-sets,and has for some time. Cannot assign spot/center/matrix,or white balance measuring to a single button like Nikon's user-definable "Func" button. This is a big missing feature of the 7D.

The most SERIOUS, real problem is the 7D's inability to make auto-exposure lock "sticky". The camera also cannot bracket exposures in Manual mode--this is for HDR use,and is a serious,glaring omission. Flexible program shift entered by the user goes BACK TO THE IDIOT mode after every shutter release--this is in direct contrast to Nikon, and was so odd I had to verify this myself. This negates the ability to use flexible program mode like a grown-up photographer!

No AUTO-ISO in manual mode! One area where Canon serious,seriously lags behind Nikon. Nikon allows you to program a set shutter speed and set f/stop in Manual mode, so that you can get the shutter speed you NEED for motion stopping ability and the aperture you WANT for depth of field control,and then the Nikon will adjust the ISO up and down to achieve the right exposure with the parameters YOU have set....Canon has not figured out how to even come close to this system. Pentax has though. And Nikon.

No bracketing of flash exposures. Can not use the auto exposure lock button in manual metering mode--how very,very 1970's. Exposure bracketing limited to 3 shots--not very HDR friendly. Exposure bracketing limited to 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments, and only 3 shots....seriously, NOT enough latitude or difference to make bracketing worthwhile in many situations. And exposure bracketing can not be done in a manual exposure mode? Wow--it's like a big $1700 Point and Shoot. A LOT of advanced features are simply not in this camera.

Canon has once again decided to place a HUGE feature gap between its 1-series bodies and its top pro-sumer body. Canon has since the original Rebel, deliberately crippled its lower end cameras to place them at a disadvantage compared with the higher-end cameras. Does anybody recall the famous "Russian hack" that unlocked all the deliberately crippled features in the original Rebel, which made it much more competitive with the 10D body and its feature set? The original Rebel was crippled, very badly, compared with the both the EOS 10D and the Nikon D70, and as a result, the 10D and the Nikon D70 sold much better.

It's pretty hard to argue against the fact that the D300 and D300s have many control features and functions that the 7D lacks. It doesn't matter much anyway-- Nikon users will buy Nikons and Canon users will buy Canons. People who switch from one brand to another can be lobbied by people who care to do so. I own both Canon and Nikon cameras. I think the 7D is missing a lot of controls I would like to have, but for many people it would be a perfectly fine camera. It is a step up over the 40D and 50D bodies and the Rebel series. But Canon makes it clear it is *not* going to include the 1-series types of controls, or compete directly with Nikon's D300s. Canon is doing the same thing with the 5D-II and Nikon's D700 camera--deliberately trying to compete with a simpler body, but a higher MP count sensor. At a slightly lower price. So far, it's working.

 

[musicaleCA]

For example: ONE, single white balance pre-set; competition has 4 user-definable pre-sets,and has for some time. Cannot assign spot/center/matrix,or white balance measuring to a single button like Nikon's user-definable "Func" button. This is a big missing feature of the 7D.

Yup, that much is true. Can't explain-away the WB presets, or lack thereof. Then again, shooting RAW, it's generally a moot point.

That said, changing metering mode is very, very quick; there's a dedicated button for it, and then just flip a dial. Really, why would I want to put it on another button? I suppose just cycling through them would be shiny, but that saves me one button press, and would hardly be the difference between making a shot and not (I'm assuming that one has the forethought to plan ahead and choose the right settings before snapping the shutter).

The most SERIOUS, real problem is the 7D's inability to make auto-exposure lock "sticky".

Wait, what exactly are you talking about? Please very clearly describe what sort of functionality you mean by "sticky". If it is what I think it is, the 7D can do it.

The camera also cannot bracket exposures in Manual mode--this is for HDR use,and is a serious,glaring omission.

Point, but, meh. I don't see that as the seriously terrifying omission you seem to see it as. Flip the dial three notches, snap, three, snap, three, snap. Slower, cruder, mildly annoying, but that can hardly be called a deal-breaker, can it?

Flexible program shift entered by the user goes BACK TO THE IDIOT mode after every shutter release--this is in direct contrast to Nikon, and was so odd I had to verify this myself. This negates the ability to use flexible program mode like a grown-up photographer!

Erm...no. If you're talking about exposure compensation, than no, no it doesn't. If you're talking about The ratio between f-stop and shutter-speed, that doesn't change either. This is in P mode that I'm referring to.

No AUTO-ISO in manual mode! One area where Canon serious,seriously lags behind Nikon. Nikon allows you to program a set shutter speed and set f/stop in Manual mode, so that you can get the shutter speed you NEED for motion stopping ability and the aperture you WANT for depth of field control,and then the Nikon will adjust the ISO up and down to achieve the right exposure with the parameters YOU have set....Canon has not figured out how to even come close to this system. Pentax has though. And Nikon.

That's an absolute fallacy, and I think it's amusing that you bought it. You can set auto ISO while in manual mode on my 7D, no problem. What the shmick are you talking about Derrel?

No bracketing of flash exposures. Can not use the auto exposure lock button in manual metering mode

A I said above, you can bracket flash exposures, and that's done with an external flash. It's a difference between systems. As for the AE-Lock button dieing in M, could you explain jusy WHY that's a bad thing? I can rarely think of situations where I use AE-Lock, let aong need it in manual.

 

[Derrel]

White balance pre-sets are useful for professional work where mixed lighting is encountered, or when one wants to shoot mixed tungsten + flash (wedding) or wants a specific white balance, like a Uni-White Balance, or a specific shade white balance. Shooting in RAW is fine, but unless you set an accurate WB beforehand, the demosaicing of the RAW data will be done using false color information. For those on deadline, or who shoot JPEG, or who do much critical work involving mixed lighting sources, having 4 custom White Balances makes sense....that's why other camera makers have more than "one" pre-set. Think bride's dressing area-church-reception hall-outdoors. Or 1/4 CTO gel + Tungsten. 4 versus 1 pre-set. Again, all software, no extra cost--why can't Canon use a few bytes to implement 4?

Sticky...no...check page three of the thread...Nikon has a 4-option setup...so no, you're not thinking of what the post was discussing.

No bracketing in Manual mode is a "meh"? The 1Ds-Mk III has 2,3,5,and 7 shot bracketing +/- 3EV in 1/3 or 1/2 stops. The Nikon D300 has bracketing in 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 1-stop bracketing increments, over a 5-EV value range. Covered in anywhere from 2 to 9 frames. The 7D offers 2- or 3-frame brackets, over +/- 2EV, in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments. Uh, meh is right--that's not bracketing, that is exposure micro-adjustment. There's a new type of photography called HDR, derived from the older exposure blending--which is why Nikon is going with bracketing that spans as many as NINE frames, and FIVE f/stops worth of difference. There is often not time to flip the dial and make manual adjustments--for those who do a lot of HDR photography, Nikon has become the clear leader. Manuallly moving dials and knobs slows down the process and can move the camera or allow too much subject movement in a 10-second process done all manually, when with a camera like a D300, the entire sequence can be shot in roughly .5 to 1.2 seconds. It is simple engineering, all done in software, but yet Canon cannot figure out how to include this feature? Or do they want you to buy a 1Ds-III, or a Nikon?

Flexible program shift is NOT exposure compensation. Confused much by the terminology? Flexible Program is "P" in Canon-speak. Camera picks an aperture and shutter speed,and YOU manually, with forethought, turn the wheel to set a different, but equivalent exposure setting--to get a slower or faster shutter speed. Every time the light meter switches off, Canon bodies like the EOS 5D and the 20-30-40-50D, all shift back to the DEFAULT, or baseline suggested value selected by the camera, ignoring the Program SHIFT aspect that the shooter has set himself. So, over a 10-minute or a 10-hour shooting session, a Canon will default to the factory program every single time the meter times out; a Nikon will remember the user's settings for hours, or all day, until the power switch is flipped to OFF. The 7D acts like a point and shoot, always trying to override the Program Shift back to fatory determined defaults.

Why is this important you ask? Recall the fellow poo-pooing that the 7D goes to SLEEP. Oh, yeah that guy was you! Try remote-mounting your 7D and set the shutter speed in Program mode to the highest shutter speed possible with a given lens, say 1/4000 at f/4 at ISO 1000 for a track meet. Then, remote mount the camera. Every time the 7D goes to sleep, YOUR input will be disregarded, and the camera will revert to its basic, dumb programming,which favors a modest relationship between speed and f/stop. It'll be sweet to download the Program shots the 7D elected to expose at its default of 1/500 second at f/11. Same exposure as f/4 at 1/4000 second--totally equivalent exposure values,right? "Meh," indeed. A Nikon will not do that--it will honor the Program Shift as it was entered. All day long, even if the camera meter switches off. Remember, the 7D is aimed at sports/nature shooters...but its acting like a Point and Shoot and overriding the input of the photographer. But so have the 5D and 10D thru 50D on this same,exact metering mode, Flexible Program--which is different from the Green Box or 'Idiot' mode, which is NOT user-shiftable.

Changing metering mode, or programming any number of functions to a body-mounted button called the FUNC button is something Nikon premiered in 2004. Allowing the photographer to program the FUNC button is invaluable for a serious user: I have my D2x mode set to switch from 1.5x mode to 2.0 or High Speed Crop mode with the press of the FUNC button. See, the idea is that there is a FUNC button that the USER can program for INSTANT, even in-the-dark control, to set the camera up to do a certain thing. Nikon understands that dedicated buttons and menus are nice. Canon has been pushing that nifty Direct Print Button for quite a while. It's not a case of cycling through modes, which is a Canon user's concept of how a camera ought to function--it's a matter of having the *ability* to put whatever a particular user determines is the most-critical feature setup at one's fingertip. That is why Nikon uses a FUNC button that each user can program, to put a critical adjustment at the fingertips for various jobs. The Func button is pressed with the right middle finger while the camera is at eye level. One design ethos respects the shooter, the other sees him as end-user.

Does the 7D have four, user-configurable shooting banks, with ALL settings user-configurable, so the camera can be pre-adjusted for four widely disparate shooting conditions? Nikon uses that system. Minolta's 7D had a top-deck mounted 3-position shifter knob that controlled what Nikon would call Exposure Settings Banks. Great concept. Easy enough to execute.

See, the 7D is ostensibly targeting Nikon's high-end APS-C cameras and is claiming to be a "pro" camera, yet it lacks a lot of the controls other pro cameras have. And MOST of this stuff could be done in software!

Why should flash bracketing be done controlled by the camera? Uh, that idea came from Nikon when they invented off-camera, multiple speedlight photography with their CLS sytem. Nikon figures that controlling the flash should be done by the camera body,and not at the flash itself, since the flash might be mounted off-camera or on a light stand 13 feet in the air. Canon thinks flash bracketing adjustment ought to be on the flash, I guess.
After all, who would remote mount a flash and want to control the flash's exposure from the camera position? Meh...

Seriously..the two camera companies have very,very different control methods. If you want to read the 2nd and third pages of the thread I referenced, the answers are in there. Check out the Program Shift feature on your 7D and get back to me if the behavior of my 5D and my 20D is different, if you would please.

 

[Garbz]

Ah, well still, I think that's a bit of an odd expectation; perhaps Garbz could chime in because he seems to know a heck of a lot more about electrical engineering than I do. My thinking would be that having that top display on all the time would require the camera to constantly access it's RAM that it uses to store all the data displayed there. If, by turning off that display, Canon's engineers can eke out a little more power from the battery by thus shutting off more of the camera's internals when you're not using it, kudos to them.

battletone is right. The LCD on the top uses next to no power. It's a very very simple low power device, just like the watches which run on a tiny battery for several years at a time. Also microcontrollers often enter a low power sleep mode without state changing any of their outputs, patiently waiting for an interrupt signal (like half pressing the shutter). In this low power mode all power hungry components are shut down, such as internal clocks, and unused ports. Modern microcontrollers in sleep mode draw such little power that the device's run time is based on the shelf life of the batteries.

In the case of the sleep mode in the camera, the usual approach is to only turn off the power hungry components, such as focus, meters, and the backlit LCDs. In the case of the Nikon, in sleep mode you can see all the settings of the camera on the top LCD, except for the aperture and shutter, since those will not be current because the light meter is turned off. I have no hard data on the battery life of sleep mode, but I did once take a picture and forget to turn off the camera, and after 2 weeks, one of the two batteries was about half drained (I don't know where it started but I guess you should get a months idle time out of a battery).

 

[battletone]

Flexible program shift is NOT exposure compensation. Confused much by the terminology? Flexible Program is "P" in Canon-speak. Camera picks an aperture and shutter speed,and YOU manually, with forethought, turn the wheel to set a different, but equivalent exposure setting--to get a slower or faster shutter speed. Every time the light meter switches off, Canon bodies like the EOS 5D and the 20-30-40-50D, all shift back to the DEFAULT, or baseline suggested value selected by the camera, ignoring the Program SHIFT aspect that the shooter has set himself. So, over a 10-minute or a 10-hour shooting session, a Canon will default to the factory program every single time the meter times out; a Nikon will remember the user's settings for hours, or all day, until the power switch is flipped to OFF. The 7D acts like a point and shoot, always trying to override the Program Shift back to fatory determined defaults.

Why is this important you ask? Recall the fellow poo-pooing that the 7D goes to SLEEP. Oh, yeah that guy was you! Try remote-mounting your 7D and set the shutter speed in Program mode to the highest shutter speed possible with a given lens, say 1/4000 at f/4 at ISO 1000 for a track meet. Then, remote mount the camera. Every time the 7D goes to sleep, YOUR input will be disregarded, and the camera will revert to its basic, dumb programming,which favors a modest relationship between speed and f/stop. It'll be sweet to download the Program shots the 7D elected to expose at its default of 1/500 second at f/11. Same exposure as f/4 at 1/4000 second--totally equivalent exposure values,right? "Meh," indeed. A Nikon will not do that--it will honor the Program Shift as it was entered. All day long, even if the camera meter switches off. Remember, the 7D is aimed at sports/nature shooters...but its acting like a Point and Shoot and overriding the input of the photographer. But so have the 5D and 10D thru 50D on this same,exact metering mode, Flexible Program--which is different from the Green Box or 'Idiot' mode, which is NOT user-shiftable.

I just have to ask....what is it doing that is different from using Shutter Priority with auto w/b, auto ISO (my XSi has auto ISO), etc?

 

[icassell]

. And they conveniently ignore that the camera's new focusing screen makes manual focusing almost impossible.

I dunno. I can manually focus on mine. It doesn't seem any more difficult than my 30D. On the other hand, I DO miss the split screens from my 35mm days ... maybe Rachel Katz will come up with one for the 7D too (there is one available for the older ones).

 

[gsgary]

This is what a top UK pro mag has to say

1. The good news for potential buyers of the 7D is that image quality is impressive for a camera in the price bracket

2. Even after just a short period of using the 7D it becomes abundantly clear that it's features are designed to suit the experienced and pro photographer

3. Owners of 1D series DSLRs should snap this up as a back up or use it as a second DSLR when there isn't time to swap lenses

4. I always like to process my Raw files in Capture pro 4 however , because this is a new camera there isn't an update for it yet so it is a little tricky to know how good the 7D's images are compared to other cameras

8 marks out of 10

 

[icassell]

4. I always like to process my Raw files in Capture pro 4 however , because this is a new camera there isn't an update for it yet so it is a little tricky to know how good the 7D's images are compared to other cameras

8 marks out of 10

I sometimes use Capture One 4 too, but I have a funny feeling there won't be a 7D update as Phase One has just come out with Capture One 5 ...