Are DSLR's a dying breed?

[Gavjenks]

Sorry I missed the word "hood" -- that fixes brightness but is also a huge, bulky hood.... and I don't see any advantages over EVFs.

That isn't what's being discussed. Please don't move the goalposts. You described a hybrid system where there was an OVF and an EVF. In yours, there was some vaguely-describe transition (Would have to be either or); but the idea is the same.

I don't particularly like my suggested system, I was just saying it's possible (but no probably not terribly better or worse than a rear LCD with a hood).
The ideal is a pure 100% of the time EVF that simply updates at indistinguishably fast times where you can't see lag. And I think THAT is definitely better in pretty much every way, yes?

 

[JerryLove]

I don't particularly like my suggested system, I was just saying it's possible (but no probably not terribly better or worse than a rear LCD with a hood).
The ideal is a pure 100% of the time EVF that simply updates at indistinguishably fast times where you can't see lag. And I think THAT is definitely better in pretty much every way, yes?

Agreed

 

[robbins.photo]

I am still waiting for the "air car" that was supposed to replace the road-driven cars of the 1950's. Popular Science and Popular Mechanics predicted the "death of the automobile" for years and years on end, beginning 60+ years ago.

We were told by Bill Gates that all computing would move to "the cloud" (before it was called the cloud).

Yeah. Right. Predicting the future is a very difficult endeavor. I remember back when Apple Computer was about to die. RFLMFAO.

Yeah. Right.

Hey, ok sure, maybe not all of that came true. But you have to admit it's much nicer now that we are all living on the moon.

 

[71M]

We were told by Bill Gates that all computing would move to "the cloud" (before it was called the cloud).

Yeah. Right. Predicting the future is a very difficult endeavor. I remember back when Apple Computer was about to die. RFLMFAO.

IBM's vision in the 70s/80s: the paperless office - it's 2/3rds there. Apple very nearly ran out of operating capital at one point.

 

[71M]

This whole interwebs thing?

It'll pass...

It will. It becomes more parochial as time goes by.

 

[ConradM]

I personally demo's the A7, the 24MP model. I was disappointed by the view through the EVF. I am used to high-end Nikon d-slr viewfinders and their superb OVFs (optical view finders): D1,D1h,D2x,D3x. Frankly, I thought that the "video-y look" of the view through the EVF in the A7 sucked. For people who shoot slow-moving stuff that has no expression, no movement, or who use the rear LCD to frame, the EVF's limitations could be overlooked.

With such slow fps I could actually see that -

• Continuous Shooting Speed : Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps

However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

 

[robbins.photo]

I personally demo's the A7, the 24MP model. I was disappointed by the view through the EVF. I am used to high-end Nikon d-slr viewfinders and their superb OVFs (optical view finders): D1,D1h,D2x,D3x. Frankly, I thought that the "video-y look" of the view through the EVF in the A7 sucked. For people who shoot slow-moving stuff that has no expression, no movement, or who use the rear LCD to frame, the EVF's limitations could be overlooked.

With such slow fps I could actually see that -

• Continuous Shooting Speed : Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps

However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

Ok, a couple of quick thoughts here - I don't own an A77 nor have I tested one, but the fact that the camera can shoot 12 FPS in no way gaurantees that the EVF can actually keep up at 12 FPS. I've actually owned a couple of cameras with EVF and high burst rates, and the EVF started to lag pretty quickly after the first couple of frames. Now that's not to say that such is the case with the A77 but it does seem to be a common complaint among people who have tried some of the various EVF systems on the market.

Is mirrorless the future? Maybe. A lot is going to depend on market forces and what sort of developments are made in the future. Personally I think that at some point mirrorless will eventually replace the DSLR, however that when Nikon and Canon do finally switch that the cameras they start producing will most likely look and feel much like the current DSLR's, and that they will most likely be compatible with their current line up of lenses for their DSLR's.

To do otherwise would most likely be a marketing disaster of epic proportions. But I don't think you'll see either Canon or Nikon release anything like this for a while yet, not until EVF technology can not only match OVF, but actually exceed it in many respects. Until then I fully expect Nikon to do exactly what they are doing now, using the J series to help recover the costs of their research and development in the field and waiting until the point when they can put out a mirrorless that can truly match or exceed their current lineup of DSLR's in all aspects.

Then and only then will you start to see the demise of the DSLR, but I have a feeling we have more than a few years before that all comes to pass.

 

[ConradM]

I personally demo's the A7, the 24MP model. I was disappointed by the view through the EVF. I am used to high-end Nikon d-slr viewfinders and their superb OVFs (optical view finders): D1,D1h,D2x,D3x. Frankly, I thought that the "video-y look" of the view through the EVF in the A7 sucked. For people who shoot slow-moving stuff that has no expression, no movement, or who use the rear LCD to frame, the EVF's limitations could be overlooked.

With such slow fps I could actually see that -

• Continuous Shooting Speed : Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps

However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

Ok, a couple of quick thoughts here - I don't own an A77 nor have I tested one, but the fact that the camera can shoot 12 FPS in no way gaurantees that the EVF can actually keep up at 12 FPS. I've actually owned a couple of cameras with EVF and high burst rates, and the EVF started to lag pretty quickly after the first couple of frames. Now that's not to say that such is the case with the A77 but it does seem to be a common complaint among people who have tried some of the various EVF systems on the market.

It keeps up. Even my a33 @ 5 or 7fps keeps up. I've gotten hundreds of great actions shots with it.

So when you consider most DSLR's that compete with the a77 can only manage 4 or 5fps having 10 or 12 is a pretty big advantage.

 

[runnah]

Yes they are, PixelRabbit's just died today.

 

[ConradM]

2 years ago I was out with a buddy taking riding pics. I had him take this sequence of me. I just locked the aperture and put it on continuous mode and told him to point, hold down the button and follow me. Again this is with my lowly a33.

 

[robbins.photo]

With such slow fps I could actually see that -



However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

Ok, a couple of quick thoughts here - I don't own an A77 nor have I tested one, but the fact that the camera can shoot 12 FPS in no way gaurantees that the EVF can actually keep up at 12 FPS. I've actually owned a couple of cameras with EVF and high burst rates, and the EVF started to lag pretty quickly after the first couple of frames. Now that's not to say that such is the case with the A77 but it does seem to be a common complaint among people who have tried some of the various EVF systems on the market.

It keeps up. Even my a33 @ 5 or 7fps keeps up. I've gotten hundreds of great actions shots with it.

So when you consider most DSLR's that compete with the a77 can only manage 4 or 5fps having 10 or 12 is a pretty big advantage.

I certainly wouldn't mind having something that could shoot 12 FPS. But then again I don't have the confidence to invest in Sony's alpha system, at least not at this stage. Too many concerns for me about the long term. Don't need anything to put on top of the beta max machine that's been collecting dust in the garage now for a few decades. All in all I'm pretty happy with my current Nikon setup, and really if I were going to upgrade at some point investing in a completely different system just wouldn't make that much sense for me personally.

 

[ConradM]

That I could understand.

 

[Gavjenks]

With such slow fps I could actually see that - However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

1) What does FPS have anything to do with EVF responsiveness? If anything, higher FPS would compete for processor resources and tend to slow down an EVF. Not necessarily, but if anything, that. I see no great reason why high FPS would indicate faster EVFs, other than just a correlation with more expensive cameras in general.

2) Also, the A77 is a DSLR. So it's not really a great example of an alternative camera in a thread entitled "Are DSLRs a dying breed?" ...

DSLR = "Digital Single Lens Reflex" camera.
The "reflex" is short for "reflection," i.e. the fact that the image is reflected by the mirror. Since the A77 also has a mirror and reflects the image, and is digital and has a single lens, it is a DSLR.
("Reflex" does not refer to the swinging of the mirror, as becomes clear when you consider the class of cameras popular for some decades called "TLR"s, "Twin Lens Reflex" that do not have moving mirrors either)

The A7, by comparison, does not have a mirror, and is thus not a reflex camera or a DSLR.

 

[ConradM]

With such slow fps I could actually see that - However, my a77 is rated at 12fps so it's near instant. That being said, I don't see the evf in the a77 as having any limitations, only benefits. Namely pre-chimping.

1) What does FPS have anything to do with EVF responsiveness? If anything, higher FPS would compete for processor resources and tend to slow down an EVF. Not necessarily, but if anything, that. I see no great reason why high FPS would indicate faster EVFs, other than just a correlation with more expensive cameras in general.

In my experience with my 2 sony alpha's, the higher the fps the faster the refresh rate if that's what you want to call it. (I mean, it would have to be) But there really isn't a refresh rate with the a77... to me there is no "delay" or lag that I can notice.

2) Also, the A77 is a DSLR. So it's not really a great example of an alternative camera in a thread entitled "Are DSLRs a dying breed?" ...

DSLR = "Digital Single Lens Reflex" camera.
The "reflex" is short for "reflection," i.e. the fact that the image is reflected by the mirror. Since the A77 also has a mirror and reflects the image, and is digital and has a single lens, it is a DSLR.
("Reflex" does not refer to the swinging of the mirror, as becomes clear when you consider the class of cameras popular for some decades called "TLR"s, "Twin Lens Reflex" that do not have moving mirrors either)

The A7, by comparison, does not have a mirror, and is thus not a reflex camera or a DSLR.

It is a great example as an alternative. The fixed translucent mirror provides a host of advantages that traditional DSLR's just can't achieve. Just the the fact that one has an evf set's it far enough apart for it to be considered an alternative. It's by no means a traditional or conventional DSLR.

 

[ConradM]

That being said, the technology pioneered in the Alpha line is advancing and trickling over into the ax000 line. Now we have AF in a mirrorless design that bests any DSLR.

So either way, things are happening that are going to make moving mirrors look archaic.