Auto ISO in manual = Shutter and Aperture priority.

[cowleystjames]

I use auto ISO on both my D4s and D800e, but only between defined upper and lower points depending on the camera and situation.
With the D4s, I'll use ISO 100 to 6400 in general as my goalposts, but on the D800e, I wouldn't go above ISO 1600. However, with D810 I will probably up that upper limit to 3200 after trialling that ISO a bit.
In certain situations, auto ISO can be a boon as long as you don't let the camera go mad. For instance, I was shooting an athletic meet in constantly changing weather conditions. It was between brilliant sunshine but then a dark cloud would come over and almost instantly plunge the arena into really overcast, almost dark light. With auto ISO on, I didn't have to bother and could concentrate on shutter speed, aperture and following the action.
However, I realise it doesn't suit everyone, but in my case it's used on a pretty regular basis.

 

[WayneF]

I used to think AUTO ISO was of very little use, until sensor performance got really good at higher ISO levels,

Me too, I always considered ISO to be one of the most important parameters to be controlled myself. But recently on vacation, in various museums and dark castles, I tried it, and was surprised that it seemed able to adapt. Worked pretty well, with only a few surprises. We can see the ISO value in the viewfinder. So I have to reluctantly agree that Auto ISO does seem to have a use for casual snapshots, in varied situations, in that way.

But still, for any studied serious picture, I think ISO is certainly my job to decide and approve.


Novices do need to know this following:

Auto ISO is a problem for flash. Certainly any manual flash cannot adapt to changing ISO. Nikon cameras will not allow Auto ISO to increase if Manual flash is detected present (hot shoe). But if a studio flash (PC cord or radio trigger), the camera cannot detect the flash, so the user absolutely must know this. Turn Auto ISO off (the camera will still work. )

Nikon cameras have varied in their method of Auto ISO with TTL flash. Older DSLR (D70, D40, D90, D300, etc) never allowed Auto ISO to increase if flash was detected present. So that was a good thing. There was one exception, if it was metered that a hot shoe TTL needed greater power capability (bounce at f/16), it would boost Auto ISO then, to help it.

Newer models (beginning with the D300S, and continuing ALMOST to this day) changed. Now Auto ISO was set for the ambient, first, regardless if we intend to use flash or not. The flash has to work into that high ISO (high in dim places where flash would be needed). No big deal outdoors in sunlight (flash and sunlight are about the same color), but now, the high ISO indoors sees the orange incandescent lights well, and the green fluorescent lights well, etc. The flash color is about Daylight (more blue), so this causes serious white balance problems. This was about the same time Nikon brought out flashes with filter holders, so we could also make the flash also be orange or green, to manage it. Not many bother to do it.

But about the last three models (D800, D600, D7100) have changed back, and now if TTL flash is detected present, Auto ISO is only allowed to increase two stops (typically to ISO 400, which is good for bounce flash). Auto ISO won't go higher if flash is detected present. This is a very good thing again, IMO.

 

[Vince.1551]

I won't use auto ISO if the situation permits. When the situation demands (when needing to fix shutter speed and aperture) auto ISO is a blessing.

It's just like using Av, Tv or M. Whatever the situation demands. And there's no shame using any of these given options even though some people swear by using M only

 

[sfaust]

I won't use auto ISO if the situation permits. When the situation demands (when needing to fix shutter speed and aperture) auto ISO is a blessing.

It's just like using Av, Tv or M. Whatever the situation demands. And there's no shame using any of these given options even though some people swear by using M only

Can't agree more. No matter the mode used (other than full Program modes) the photographer stills has complete control. If you want to shoot at 1/125, f8, ISO 400, you can get there in M, Av, Tv, or Auto-ISO modes. You just need to manipulate the controls differently depending on the mode to get there, but you'll end up there if you wish.

There are only three primary controls to getting the proper exposure. Aperture, Shutter, and ISO. The various modes just pre-set one or two to save time, and leave the others up to the photographer. Either way, the photographer still has complete control with the spin of a dial or button to get any settings they desire. Av and Tv are just 'speed-manual' modes where the photographer gives the camera the most important control, the camera suggests the other, and the photographer tweaks it from there with Exposure Compensation. He stills ends up at the same place, just faster.

Auto ISO is unique in that it gives the photographer an 'Aperture + Shutter' priority mode. It is a blessing when shutter speed and aperture are key for a shot, and the ISO for a good exposure is changing from shot to shot.
Derrel gave a perfect example of when that mode outshines any other for the given circumstances. And under those conditions, Auto-ISO will deliver far more usable images than any other mode, and it would be a frustrating exercise for the manual only crowd.

Shooting commercially, the situations are ever changing, always challenging, and there are cases where all modes are extremely useful and warranted. If one is pigeon holed into one specialty or technique, the other modes may be of little use to them. But for photographers shooting in changing and challenging environments, the more modes the merrier, and once learned, a more well rounded photographer they become.

 

[pixmedic]

Ya'll killing me tonight.....seriously.

OK, so..you all know I don't particularly like locking threads, and even though this one deserved it, I have decided to go through it, clean up the debacle, and reopen the thread. I think this is a particularly interesting subject and people should be able to discuss it.
There probably should have been infractions given out for having to do this much cleaning, but im too tired now so...
The next rabble rouser i find stirring up trouble in this thread gets an automatic TPF vacation.
You have been warned, so keep it civil.

In case anyone was wondering, I set max iso to what I think the camera will handle for the situation i am in and shoot auto ISO fairly regularly.
both the D7000 and D7100 do quite well with it.

 

[tecboy]

I wonder if dslr will have 3rd wheel to change iso value.

 

[WayneF]

I wonder if dslr will have 3rd wheel to change iso value.

One of the buttons on top of my Nikon D300 and D800 is an ISO button - press it and turn the rear wheel to change ISO.

 

[JacaRanda]

I wonder if dslr will have 3rd wheel to change iso value.

One of the buttons on top of my Nikon D300 and D800 is an ISO button - press it and turn the rear wheel to change ISO.

And the 70D he has, has the same thing.

 

[tecboy]

I meant 3rd wheel would be easier and quicker that way instead pressing the button on top.

 

[DarkShadow]

60D and 6D has a dedicated ISO right on Top. Push and turn the dial Ba Bam.I rather have a two step so it don't easily get changed off of Auto.

 

[Braineack]

I meant 3rd wheel would be easier and quicker that way instead pressing the button on top.

On my Nikon I have "Easy-ISO" turned on.

So If I'm in A or S modes, the front wheel changing either the shutter or aperture, and the thumbwheel will change the ISO.

I most often will shoot in A mode. So when I line up a shot, I first think: okay, what the DOF I want here? And I'll dial in say f/5.6.

Then I'll glance at the shutter speed and if I see something like 1/60, and I'll go: well that's too low for my 125mm focal length, and I'll just dial up the ISO until I get a shutter speed of 1/250sec.

Then I take the picture--it's hardly even measurable the time it takes to do this--and I end up with a well exposed picture with the DOF I wouldn't compromise on and a shutter speed that leads to a sharp image. I have little regard to what the ISO number ended up with--it is what it is.

Now only in manual mode do you have to push a button and spin. And otherwise, that wheel would be useless and unused.

Nikon was also nice enough to place the wheels in logical, ergonomical positions for me, where even if you had this option on a Canon (which I dunno if you do) would still be hard to manage.

 

[Vince.1551]

Maybe because I came from the film era and very much like the idea of having individual control dials for S, A, ISO and EV compensation like the cameras mentioned above. I wished more Nikon cameras are designed like the FF DF.

 

[jake337]

Auto ISO is pretty sweet on the Nikon Df.

 

[Ysarex]

I think this is a particularly interesting subject and people should be able to discuss it.

Ok, how about a different twist on the concept and consider this:

We could actually start using our digital cameras as if they were digital cameras and stop pretending they're old film cameras. Just stop the silly ISO business entirely since it doesn't really have any effect on the what the sensors in our cameras actually record and otherwise just slows us down and encourages us to be less precise.

I understand the implications of what I'm suggesting -- I'm suggesting kicking the JPEG crutch out from under us entirely and that's a really big crutch. It's complicated by the fact that the cameras are all designed with the "crutch" built in. But there are benefits. I know a lot of the people posting here do in fact save raw files. But most folks who work with raw files still only embrace that discipline partially.

What I'm saying here goes back to a point that Derrel made earlier in the thread about modern camera sensors and how good they really are. The only thing increasing the ISO does in camera is apply an analog amplification to the sensor data which results in less noise on the front end. It does not produce one iota of additional real data. In post processing, my available options for noise filtering are far more sophisticated and I can do a much better job starting from scratch. Furthermore, if you do go ahead an apply that analog amplification up front in the camera then there's no way to back that off and it's burned into your raw file. Any bad results (there can be many) of that amplification become part of your raw file. In other words I'm suggesting there are advantages to saving "really raw" raw files by just giving up the ISO crutch entirely. In terms of the data recorded by your sensor, ISO isn't real so what happens if you stop pretending it is?

I understand what I'm suggesting would not be practical for most and is in fact an extreme position. But when this thread began, the idea that you could put the camera in full manual and just ignore the ISO by letting the camera take care of it got some raised eyebrows. What that method in effect does is allow you to take the photo at the shutter speed and f/stop you require and then hands over to the camera electronics the job of amplifying the sensor signal the appropriate amount. OK, take it a step further and just turn off that camera amplifier as well -- now you have even less to worry about. Since that ISO amplification doesn't in fact give you any real additional data, and it does in fact degrade the image relative to what you can do in post without it's interference, then you have a logical argument for taking this all the way. The concept of variable ISO does not apply to a digital camera sensor. It only applies to electronic image processing -- the JPEG crutch side of the camera.

Joe

 

[Braineack]

I understand what I'm suggesting would not be practical for most and is in fact an extreme position. But when this thread began, the idea that you could put the camera in full manual and just ignore the ISO by letting the camera take care of it got some raised eyebrows. What that method in effect does is allow you to take the photo at the shutter speed and f/stop you require and then hands over to the camera electronics the job of amplifying the sensor signal the appropriate amount. OK, take it a step further and just turn off that camera amplifier as well -- now you have even less to worry about. Since that ISO amplification doesn't in fact give you any real additional data, and it does in fact degrade the image relative to what you can do in post without it's interference, then you have a logical argument for taking this all the way. The concept of variable ISO does not apply to a digital camera sensor. It only applies to electronic image processing -- the JPEG crutch side of the camera.

Joe

So you just want everyone to shoot at ISO 100?

I'd rather shoot a well exposed image at 3200 then to shoot the same at ISO 100 and then try to recover +5 EV out of the RAW image.


I put a subwoofer in my car but I didn't add an amplifier. You can't really hear it, because it requires greater amounts of power in order to reproduce low frequencies, but it's still there.