Beginner in search of the right camera for capturing images of aquatic life

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

Hi all! This is my first post here, but I am sure it will be far from the last. I am an aquarium hobbyist that has built a fast-growing business selling aquatic animals online. We carry over 100 species, with more being added every week. However, all of our pictures are being taken on an iPhone 5S (Gasp).

I bought a Nikkon P520, but the auto-focus is painfully slow. Absolutely not going to work. The iPhone 5s doesn't have the highest resolution or best lens, but it has a very fast auto-focus, and I can focus on specific depths or fish very quickly by tapping the screen. For what I am trying to photograph, getting the picture at all is very difficult, because fish and invertebrate do not pose for you. I have taken some very exceptional pictures of many species that have no good pictures of them in existence, but I am ready for something better than an iPhone.

I need something that can auto-focus VERY fast, ideally has a touchscreen that I can choose the focal point with very quickly, and deals well with fast-moving subjects. Many of the fish I want to photograph are still for less than 1/2 second before violently changing direction and swimming somewhere else. Another option I have pondered is getting a very high framerate HD video camera, and using individual frames for my pictures. This would be MUCH easier than attempting pictures for extremely fast-moving fish.

I'd like to spend less than $500, but I am willing to pay for something exceptional. I am not a photography expert by any stretch, but I learn quickly and am pretty tech minded. Since my entire business is based around showing people something with an image or video (Which the iPhone 5S does exceptionally well) vs them seeing it swimming around in a pet store, pictures are crucial to my success. I would like something that I can set to auto and will do the job I am asking without a lot of technical know-how, but if that isn't possible I can always learn. Thanks in advance for the advice!

Edit: Not opposed to used equipment at all.

Scatterbrained · May 14, 2014

You really don't need a fancy camera for this, or even AF (gasp!). It depends on how you go about it. You can mount a flash above the tank to light the fish, then prefocus on an area under the light. Then wait till the fish is in place and trip the shutter. It might help if you can put the fish in a smallish bowl/tank that will limit their movement and you can "coerce" them to swim across the cameras field of view.

The light from the flash is very fast, and will give you a crisp image at a low iso.

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

Here is my method for capturing pictures; when I walk by my show tank that new animals go in until I get good pictures, I look for good photo opportunities. My tanks are very well lighted and a flash should not be necessary. I'm looking for a camera that I can pick up, turn on, and start taking pictures within a few seconds. It is very difficult to take an excellent photo of an aquatic animal by staging and coercing; I need a camera that has very fast AF and is easy to focus on what I want in a quick manner when I see an animal posing naturally, which produces the most stunning pictures. I do plan on setting up a 10 gallon "picture tank" to help with this, but most animals will just hide if you try to coerce them. I use live plants and geodes as backdrops so I don't have crappy pictures with solid backgrounds, so my pictures look very "natural" compared to others. This means that there are lots of things to hide behind if I scare the animal.

Scatterbrained · May 14, 2014

You've never been hunting have you? It requires patience, but that patience is rewarded.

Beyond that, no matter how well lit you think your tank is, it isn't the same as a dedicated flash. No way.

As far as a fast camera with a touch screen, you can look at a Canon 70D with a 100mm f/2.8 IS macro lens. The new sensor tech in the 70D incorporates a phase detect focus system right on the sensor, so you can get similar AF performance in Live View as you do with the mirror down looking through the viewfinder. On sensor phase detect is about as sophisticated as it's going to get while letting you use the touch screen to focus.

Of course, it would be better for you to learn how to use a cameras viewfinder. You need AF that can track a moving subject, and you'll always get better performance from the traditional phase detect system in a DSLR. It's really not that hard to aim the camera so the focus point is over the subject then take the picture.

If the composition isn't quite right just crop it a bit in post. Simple, and it gives you the best result in terms of AF performance with moving subjects. The 7D, 5DIII, and even the 70D will offer good tracking performance through their mirror based PD AF system. The tracking will be better than anything you're going to get in a imaging chip based AF system (live view).

TheNevadanStig · May 14, 2014

Scatterbrained said:
You've never been hunting have you? It requires patience, but that patience is rewarded. Beyond that, no matter how well lit you think your tank is, it isn't the same as a dedicated flash. No way.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with planted or reef tanks. I've shot one of my tanks with 1500 watts of halides in addition to 750 watts of T5's over the top, and its still a struggle to get good exposure at the shutter speeds needed to capture a moving fish. A little off camera flash on over the tops of most planted tanks or reef tanks is going to be completely futile.

As for the camera itself, any decent dslr with a fast macro would do really well. When you do shoot the tank, turn off all the pumps and powerheads, and do a light feeding to coax everything out. Make sure the glass is spotless inside and out, and turn off all other lighting in the room besides for the tank itself.

Scatterbrained · May 14, 2014

Watts and watt seconds aren't the same thing.

robbins.photo · May 14, 2014

AquaticArts said:
Here is my method for capturing pictures; when I walk by my show tank that new animals go in until I get good pictures, I look for good photo opportunities. My tanks are very well lighted and a flash should not be necessary. I'm looking for a camera that I can pick up, turn on, and start taking pictures within a few seconds. It is very difficult to take an excellent photo of an aquatic animal by staging and coercing; I need a camera that has very fast AF and is easy to focus on what I want in a quick manner when I see an animal posing naturally, which produces the most stunning pictures. I do plan on setting up a 10 gallon "picture tank" to help with this, but most animals will just hide if you try to coerce them. I use live plants and geodes as backdrops so I don't have crappy pictures with solid backgrounds, so my pictures look very "natural" compared to others. This means that there are lots of things to hide behind if I scare the animal.

Are you attempting to capture images of the entire tank, or mostly individual fish. Also how much room do you have to stand back from your showtank?

SCraig · May 14, 2014

TheNevadanStig said:
I'm not sure how familiar you are with planted or reef tanks. I've shot one of my tanks with 1500 watts of halides in addition to 750 watts of T5's over the top, and its still a struggle to get good exposure at the shutter speeds needed to capture a moving fish. A little off camera flash on over the tops of most planted tanks or reef tanks is going to be completely futile.

As for the camera itself, any decent dslr with a fast macro would do really well. When you do shoot the tank, turn off all the pumps and powerheads, and do a light feeding to coax everything out. Make sure the glass is spotless inside and out, and turn off all other lighting in the room besides for the tank itself.

Scatterbrained said:
Watts and watt seconds aren't the same thing.

Scatterbrained said:
You really don't need a fancy camera for this, or even AF (gasp!). It depends on how you go about it. You can mount a flash above the tank to light the fish, then prefocus on an area under the light. Then wait till the fish is in place and trip the shutter. It might help if you can put the fish in a smallish bowl/tank that will limit their movement and you can "coerce" them to swim across the cameras field of view. ;-) The light from the flash is very fast, and will give you a crisp image at a low iso.

Agreed. Speedlights over the tank have worked well for me for years. Pretty much any body that can trigger off-camera flashes (either with cords or radio triggers) will work. Autofocus is very helpful not absolutely necessary, I shot them for a long time using a 35mm SLR with no autofocus. I used the method Scatterbrained mentioned by prefocusing on the area that will be lit by the flashes.

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

I think we are overcomplicating this. My iPhone 5S can capture good pictures with no remote flashes, tripods, or sorcery. Not just good pictures, but pictures that are often better than anything that has been taken of that species. I am looking for a camera that I can pick up, turn on, and take pictures the same way I do with my iPhone 5S, but better. Not looking to reinvent the wheel or change my method. I need a camera that can AF very fast, can take stable images with no tripod, and have the fastest exposure speed possible without needing special preparations or equipment. My CELL PHONE is already doing this very well, but surely a real camera can do the same thing much better.

Hopefully this link works:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91bYThoe70L._SL1500_.jpg

That was actually taken with an iPhone 4S (Terrible compared to 5S). The picture has many flaws, but that is a 1 in a 1,000,000 pose for a crayfish, and the only way I captured it was being able to pull out my camera and shoot the photo in a matter of seconds. That is what is most important here. If I had to set up flashes, manually focus a lens, or do anything other than power on/point/shoot, that picture wouldn't exist. That picture has sold a lot of Electric Blue Crayfish because of how the crayfish is posed. They are usually in a retreating position with claws up, and tail curled. This one happened to be walking over a rock and dragged its tail, then set there for a few seconds. I saw the opportunity, and a few seconds was both all the time I needed and all the time I had. You will never be able to intentionally pose a crayfish like that, especially not an adult. I need something that I can use to capitalize on opportunities like that.

Scatterbrained · May 14, 2014

AquaticArts said:
I think we are overcomplicating this. My iPhone 5S can capture good pictures with no remote flashes, tripods, or sorcery. Not just good pictures, but pictures that are often better than anything that has been taken of that species. I am looking for a camera that I can pick up, turn on, and take pictures the same way I do with my iPhone 5S, but better. Not looking to reinvent the wheel or change my method. I need a camera that can AF very fast, can take stable images with no tripod, and have the fastest exposure speed possible without needing special preparations or equipment. My CELL PHONE is already doing this very well, but surely a real camera can do the same thing much better.

Hopefully this link works:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91bYThoe70L._SL1500_.jpg

That was actually taken with an iPhone 4S (Terrible compared to 5S). The picture has many flaws, but that is a 1 in a 1,000,000 pose for a crayfish, and the only way I captured it was being able to pull out my camera and shoot the photo in a matter of seconds. That is what is most important here. If I had to set up flashes, manually focus a lens, or do anything other than power on/point/shoot, that picture wouldn't exist. That picture has sold a lot of Electric Blue Crayfish because of how the crayfish is posed. They are usually in a retreating position with claws up, and tail curled. This one happened to be walking over a rock and dragged its tail, then set there for a few seconds. I saw the opportunity, and a few seconds was both all the time I needed and all the time I had. You will never be able to intentionally pose a crayfish like that, especially not an adult. I need something that I can use to capitalize on opportunities like that.

It's not about posing the fish, it's about having the lighting ready so you can get the shot when the fish is in an agreeable pose or position. It's called patience. It's how the best wildlife shooters get those breathtaking shots. The shot you posted, quite frankly, is just a snapshot. You're on a photography forum, asking photographers how to take better snapshots, don't be surprised to get advice that goes beyond what you were expecting.

As I pointed out in my previous post. If all you want is a glorified P&S, the 70D plus 100 2.8 IS Macro lens will work like a point and shoot (but better) while affording you the opportunity to grow your photography when the mood strikes you. The macro lens offers IS that is quite useful for handheld shooting while delivering incredible detail. The 70Ds on chip PD AF covers 80% of the sensor, giving a wide latitude for composition.

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

Scatterbrained said:
It's not about posing the fish, it's about having the lighting ready so you can get the shot when the fish is in an agreeable pose or position. It's called patience. It's how the best wildlife shooters get those breathtaking shots. The shot you posted, quite frankly, is just a snapshot. You're on a photography forum, asking photographers how to take better snapshots, don't be surprised to get advice that goes beyond what you were expecting.

As I pointed out in my previous post. If all you want is a glorified P&S, the 70D plus 100 2.8 IS Macro lens will work like a point and shoot (but better) while affording you the opportunity to grow your photography when the mood strikes you. The macro lens offers IS that is quite useful for handheld shooting while delivering incredible detail. The 70Ds on chip PD AF covers 80% of the sensor, giving a wide latitude for composition.

I guess I was using the wrong terminology then, I am looking for something I can take fast and high quality snapshots with. I think a 70D is overkill at around $1,000. I tried one P&S (P520) and was sorely disappointed in the performance for my application. My iPhone works better for snapshots than the P520 does. I want something that works better for snapshots than my cell phone, and I was hoping that wouldn't cost more than $500, considering the phone only costs that much and the on-board camera is only a secondary function. I don't have time right now to devote to setting up photo shoots for every species I carry. I need something that I can pick up and use to take a good picture at a moment's notice. I'm asking the pros, because I already bought one P&S and it didn't do what I needed it to do.

Also, the photo I posted was taken under a 13w daylight CFL in a cheap clip-on lamp. No flash. Tanks that I take photo in now have much better lighting.

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

robbins.photo said:
Are you attempting to capture images of the entire tank, or mostly individual fish. Also how much room do you have to stand back from your showtank?

I'm taking pictures of individual fish. I can stand up to 10 feet back from the tank. When I take photos with my phone, the camera is usually 1-5" from the glass.

Scatterbrained · May 14, 2014

Amazon.com: Olympus E-PL5 Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 14-42mm Lens (Black): OLYMPUS: Electronics

AquaticArts · May 14, 2014

Scatterbrained said:
Amazon.com: Olympus E-PL5 Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 14-42mm Lens (Black): OLYMPUS: Electronics

That is what I am looking for! I researched it a bit and found this:

Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode	0.221 second	Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture, with the lens already at the proper focal distance setting. (All AF timing performed with the new Olympus 14-42mm II R kit lens at medium focal length.)
Full Autofocus, Multi-area AF mode	0.255 second	Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture, with the lens already at the proper focal distance setting.
Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Auto Flash Enabled	0.327 second	Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture, with the lens already at the proper focal distance setting, TTL Auto flash enabled.
Continuous AF	0.185 second	This mode usually shows no speed increase with our static subject; we have no way to measure performance with moving subjects.
Manual Focus	0.100 second	For most cameras, shutter lag is less in manual focus than autofocus, but usually not as fast as when the camera is "prefocused".
Prefocused	0.064 second	Time to capture, after half-pressing and holding shutter button.

Those AF times seem extremely fast for that price point, and I love that it has a touchscreen to quickly change the focal point.

Any other ideas? I've compared the E-PL5 to a lot of other cameras in that price range, and I can't find any that can AF that fast and have a touchscreen. Can anyone think of a better camera for my needs?

Thank you very much to Scatterbrain and the rest of you for all the advice.

robbins.photo · May 14, 2014

AquaticArts said:
robbins.photo said:

Are you attempting to capture images of the entire tank, or mostly individual fish. Also how much room do you have to stand back from your showtank?

Click to expand...

I'm taking pictures of individual fish. I can stand up to 10 feet back from the tank. When I take photos with my phone, the camera is usually 1-5" from the glass.

Well my recommendation would be a used Nikon D5100, body only rather than a kit, and a 50 mm AF-S 1.8 G lens. That should give you the photo quality and speed you want. Forget about the focus point/touch screen stuff, set the camera to use a single focus point in the center and shoot that way, then crop/recompose the shot later in post to get the composition you like.

That should keep you within your budget and give you all the capabilities you'll need for the types of shots you want to take.