Beginner with $2,000. what to get?

[TCampbell]

Amazingly useful response Tim. What do you think of this deal:USA Canon EOS 6d 1 2 Day Usage w 28 200 Lens in Box with Bundle Accessories 013803204131 | eBay

The 6D body itself is the valuable item in that eBay listing. It looks like he bought a 6D with the 24-105mm f/4L kit (based on the box) but wants to keep the 24-105mm f/4L and sell the 6D with a used EF 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 USM lens.

This is a VERY OLD lens which is no longer made. Also... the image quality of it... well, here's the start of the review from the-digital-picture.com:

The Canon EF 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 USM Lens holds a very wide focal length range in a compact and inexpensive package. But, image quality delivered by this lens is ... well ... poor.

(bold text added by me). Here's the link: Canon EF 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 USM Lens Review

Overall, the review on that lens is... not very inspiring.

And as if that isn't enough... did you catch the following text in the eBay ad?

Along with the camera body is a Canon 28-200 lens WHICH IS NOT 100% EFFECTIVE IN AUTO MODE, yet works great in manual. I have not cleaned the contacts or taken it in for repair as I have many lenses which cross over to that magnification range.

I'm not sure what "NOT 100% EFFECTIVE IN AUTO MODE" means, but then he talks about it as if it needs service. It sounds like the seller is having problems with the lens.

The rest of the accessories very inexpensive -- they really don't add to the value of the deal. He's got an ancient Sunpak flash (which appears to be based on a thyristor -- not an E-TTL flash compatible with the camera so the flash can only be used in manual mode and it doesn't have a pivoting head so you can't bounce it for soft light. You can get a much better deal on an off-brand economically priced flash.

You mentioned you wanted to buy used gear, but did you happen to see the listing on Canon's refurbished store (this would be a purchase directly from Canon... but a refurb camera rather than new):

Here's the camera: Canon EOS 6D Body Refurbished | Canon Online Store

But note the green text that says you get $100 off on purchases over $500. Put the camera in your cart, then go check your cart. You'll see it's actually being sold for $1499. That's not a bad price on a 6D that comes with the same 1 year warranty as a new 6D.

You would still need a lens. Which lens is best for you depends on how much you want to spend and what you plan to shoot. The EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is the "kit" lens usually sold with the body because it's a good general-purpose "walking around" lens, very sharp, good performance... basically a well-loved lens. The lens is $919 on the "refurb" store.

Another option, decently priced and keeps you under your $2000 budget (because the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is going to exceed the budget by about $500 when you're done paying shipping & taxes) is the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM. That lens is $383 on the Canon refurb store, but that lens qualifies for $50 off bringing it down to $333. Here's the review on that lens:

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens Review

The EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM is base level "walking around" standard zoom for full-frame bodies like the 6D, 5D, etc.
The EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is the upgraded level "walking around" standard zoom -- retailing for closer to $1150 (the refurb price at $919 is about $230 off the store price for a "new" lens).
The EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM II is the premium standard zoom (no "IS" on that lens, but it's a full stop faster for low light and creates a richer out-of-focus blur) but runs well over $2k all on it's own.

If you went with the 6D and 28-135mm lens, you'd end up paying a little over $1830, but you'd have a much better lens with no defects and a warranty.

Edit: After posting, I checked eBay for sales on *just* the 28-135mm. There are lots of them for sale... they all seem to be right around $200. So you could get the body only from Canon and then get the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM off eBay for around $200, for a total price of about $1700. That's probably a much better deal than the 6D package you found earlier with the suspicious lens that may not be in working condition based on the seller's ad.

 

[jman6785]

wish i had that money to drop on some new gear! Have fun.

 

[play18now]

I'm in complete agreement with everything TCampbell posted above. Best of luck to you

 

[GrandMasterK]

Tim, if I got two lenses, which other one would you recommend? Also I've been wondering. People call simpler consumer cameras point-and-shoots. I always wondered though, if in the field something happens and you need to catch it immediately with no time for any setting adjustments, whats the rule photographers employ in those situations? I ask because pros are so precise about their shots yet can't always have the convenience of getting ready for a proper shot.

Also, it says 6D is weather-proof but what does that entail? If I'm trying to take picture of a thunderstorm while in the thunderstorm, is my camera going to be get ruined? How bout the lens? Do they have devices for making it possible to shoot underwater with canon dslrs or would you have to get something else entirely? Planning a vacation soon and will probably be my first foray in a serious photography project!

 

[play18now]

In response to the camera stuff:

Yes the 6D is "weather-proof". That doesn't mean it's waterproof. The camera would survive a some rain, mud and sand. If it was going to be exposed for very long, you would want to find some way to keep water away from where the buttons are in particular. Either a makeshift camera cover or simply stepping underneath something would be fine. I wouldn't ever take it into a thunderstorm without a cover of some sort, but more importantly because I don't want to be struck by lightning. Canon's L series lenses are generally fairly weather-proof, and most have a gasket around the mount to prevent water from getting into the camer body. You would still most likely encounter problems with prolonged exposure, but water drops on the body or glass generally wont hurt anything. They do make devices that allow you to shoot underwater, although I'm not familiar with any.

Now about the actual photography:

All DLSR's that I'm aware of have at least two semi-automatic modes, and one fully automatic mode. The semi-auto's are aperture priority and shutter priority. Using one or the other allows you to set an f-stop or shutter speed and then when the camera focuses it automatically compensates with the other aspect to properly expose the photo. For example, when just walking around, I'll have my camera set in "AV" or "aperture priority" with a set f-stop of around 9, which is where I feel my standard zoom (24-105 f/4L) is the sharpest. That way if I see something, I can quickly pull up and simply shoot whatever I'm looking at, and by the time the lens has focused, the camera has figured out how to properly expose the subject and I click away. Usually if I have something that I'm trying to capture in a specific way, I have enough time to shift my f-stop either up or down and then shoot. But leaving it in the semi-auto modes for times like this lets me change just the f-stop and not have to worry about shutter speed. You can use "TV" or "shutter priority" in the same way, such as if you were shooting sports, you can say I want to shoot this at 1/1000, and your camera will adjust the other settings to bring out proper (or as close as possible) exposure. Of course you can also put your camera in the "green box" or full-auto mode and let it do all the guesswork for you, you just lose creative control when doing this.

If I can't get a perfect shot using aperture priority and a simple adjustment, I simply shrug and again realize that this is why I don't take photos for a living

 

[Sleepy_Sentry]

For all-around general purposes. My experience with photography is non sophisticated shooting on an older panasonic lumix Z30 with a fixed lens and the camera on my phone. Lets exclude flashers, remotes, lighting equipment out of the budget. I've heard it wiser to resist the vanity of a high level model camera and go with something more modest and splurge on lenses. I intend to buy most if not all equipment used. There is a T2i at the thrift store down the street for $400. I wonder....get that and use the rest on lenses (no idea what lenses to get as a good base) or aim higher for the camera. I don't know what to expect as far as disappointing lack of features. I would hope anything I get shoots great in low light or nighttime. Snaps quickly. A full range of settings to adjust picture quality. Is compatible with common quality lenses so I never feel I have to upgrade because a lens I want doesn't fit on my camera. A canon, because of the possibility of sharing equipment or collaborating with friends (who all have canons). I want the ability to shoot near and far. Thats about it Help me out guys, thanks!

If you need to think about what to get then you shouldn't be buying a lot. I recommend an entry-level body (or a used full-frame like the Canon 5D) plus one or two fixed focal length lenses. Work with those, wait a year and then see what you really need.

 

[ph0enix]

I agree with the others who said that there is no need to buy a bunch of equipment at once. You would benefit from an entry level body and a prime or a kit lens for the time being. You have a steep learning curve ahead of you and your knowledge will have a lot more to do with producing good shots than the equipment you use. Good photographers take good photos, not good cameras. I think you know what I mean by that.
With that being said, cameras and lenses that perform really well in low light are also really expensive. As far as entry level DSLRs are concerned, newer models are usually slightly better in low light than older ones but it's not an earth shattering difference.

 

[GrandMasterK]

I've been mulling over Canon vs Nikon comparison for several days. In almost every review the Nikons win out overall over the Canons at the same price range. the 6D vs D600. The 5D mark iii vs D800. Since I am also soon going to purchase an interchangeable lens pro camcorder for film projects (I'm a film student) I was thinking I might want to kill 2 birds with one stone on lenses and coordinate my purchases as cross-platform. I was wondering if anybody knows if canon or nikon would be a better choice if I plan on sharing lenses with a camcorder as well? I don't want to run into a compatibility issue later down the line. I ask all this because I am seriously considering a D800 since the price is almost as close to a 6D as it is the 5D mark iii and it's in direction competition with the 5D.

 

[GrandMasterK]

Ok nevermind on the Nikons. I ran to Best Buy and checked out the Nikon line and the Canon line and just from form factor alone I prefer the Canons. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna pull the trigger on that refurbished 6D. However, I am left with two questions here.

1. Why do they opt out of the flip out screen on the 6D and 5D?

2. Why no built-in flash on the 6D and 5D models yet the D600 and D800 nikons have them?

 

[sandrat]

Canon T2i or better. 50mm 1.4 Yongnuo YN-560 III Speedlight Learn to use these, then you'll know how you'll want to spend the rest. At that point expect a new computer or at the least, another hard drive on your list.

^ what Texkam said. I would get the camera with the kit lense tho....cause it will let you see what focal lengths you prefer

 

[nycphotography]

Photography I enjoy the most are blur-less captured motion. But I'm also really interested in capturing scenes for inspiration or possibly to be used as reference for art. I've never had a camera that could snap a pic of someone moving rapidly and get a clear image. I think the idea of that excites me the most. I played with rebels and a slew of D series cameras at best buy and the rebels seem much more idiot friendly. Its hard for me to commit to the idea of getting a cheaper camera knowing that if I get addicted i'll end up splurging for a really nice one several months laters and be tasked with hawking off the one I have. I'm curious, will all lenses that work with say a T2i end up working with something more robust like a 6D or a 5D? Also I've seen around the internet that there are newer versions of the same kind of lens. I think one was in reference to the "kit lens" that comes with the 60D and someone stating to get the body only because the updated version of the lens was far superior. I'm worried I won't understand when I'm investing in a quality lens of certain magnitude and when I'm getting a cheaper version. I'm not aware of whether or not the "kit lens" that you get with most cameras is a quality well-rounded lens or if it supplies a very narrow range of usefulness and hinders you as a photographer right out of the gate.

Cameras depreciate $$$ per year. I figure 5 years and in the trash. That means a $2000 camera is around $400 / year. Use your $400 camera for a year, and you've paid for it by NOT buying the $2k camera. Plus, a year from now, the unspent $1600 will buy more camera than it will today.

I agree with the "get the basic kit" and shoot it for a year. Then, 12 months later, go through your folders of images and consider... where do I want to go from here, what do I want to learn, what do I want my equipment to do better. Then you'll know whether to get a $2000 f2.8 zoom lens, or 4 $500 primes.

also in that year, join a club, take a class, or do something else to get out with other photographers. During those interactions, they'll show you cameras, lenses, and how THEY use them, and that will help you see and understand what you get for what you buy.

 

[nycphotography]

Also, if that year is spent shooting a 50mm 1.8, and doing like they used to teach b&w photography, then it will be a very educational and productive year.

 

[play18now]

Ok nevermind on the Nikons. I ran to Best Buy and checked out the Nikon line and the Canon line and just from form factor alone I prefer the Canons. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna pull the trigger on that refurbished 6D. However, I am left with two questions here.

1. Why do they opt out of the flip out screen on the 6D and 5D?

2. Why no built-in flash on the 6D and 5D models yet the D600 and D800 nikons have them?

1. I'm not really sure why they haven't included a flip out screen on the 6D and 5D. If I had to guess I'd say that it's because the flip out screen is primarily targeted at movie capture. Although I both the 6D and the 5DIII have video modes, neither is targeted at video shooters, and there are camcorders that are better and easier to use that are cheaper. Canon's full frame DSLR line is targeted at serious amateur and professional still photo shooters. To be honest, I have one camera body (T3i) with a flip out screen and one body (5D MkI) without, and I never used it on the T3i and don't miss in on the 5D. The flip out screen is also just something else that can go wrong, with large amounts of electronics that are wired through a very small hole. Designed to be very resilient cameras, Canon probably just figured that it wasn't worth it to put a warranty on a flip out screen that could potentially get broken off by a professional newspaper photographer that used his or her camera every day in whatever situation and weather required.

2. The reason there's no built in flash on the 6D and 5D is because they assume that people who spend that much on a camera also have an external flash. The reason for that is because there is really just so situation where a pop up flash is a good thing to use. Properly used, speedlight flashes are great tools, but there are realistically no photos which look goo which hard light flashed straight on at the subject. The adjustability of speedlight flashes are why they are useful. They aren't designed to fire straight at the subject. With a pop up flash, they only point straight at the subject. Not putting in a pop up flash is easier and cheaper and is also one less thing to have to put a warranty on.

 

[GrandMasterK]

I found an interesting ad on craigslist for a 5D at $2,500. Wanted to know what you guys think of it?Canon EOS 5D Mark III | Brand New, Never Used, USA Version *Low Price*

 

[nycphotography]

I found an interesting ad on craigslist for a 5D at $2,500. Wanted to know what you guys think of it?Canon EOS 5D Mark III | Brand New, Never Used, USA Version *Low Price*

My advice to you, as a grizzled old fart to an apparent young guy, is this: Only buy expensive (to you) things from reputable places.

Yes you may pay a little more. BUT if you buy (new or used) from Adorama, or B&H or one of the handful of other first rate places, you know you are getting the lowest fair price that someone can offer and still stay in business. Yes, you can get cheaper, but with cheaper, you add risk. As in either they can't stay in business, or they've found some nefarious other way to make money. Learn your hard knock lessons w/ pocket money and not with things that really whack the bank account.

I've been burned a few times in my life (thankfully not on a camera, but maybe, perhaps, on other stuff). I've learned (the hard way) to only take that risk with money I'm willing to light on fire and burn. I'm guessing that for you that amount is less than the price of a 5D. Stick to the known dealers. Trust me, you may spend a FEW dollars more, but you WON'T be sorry.