BEST way to answer this....

JenLavazza · Feb 24, 2011

I know WHY I don't do this....for many, many reasons, but what's the BEST way to answer this from a customer:

"Do you ever include all images on the photo disks and just put the edited ones in the front and label them? I had a coworker ask about that...and they is something a little sad about not seeing ALL of them even if they didn't all turn out. Just curious."

Stradawhovious · Feb 24, 2011

I'm no pro, and I don't anticipate being in a position of giving out a CD full of images to a client any time soon........

So here is my uneducated, should-be-ignored stance on this..... why would you want to give them the bad ones? Every image you give to a client is in and of itself a marketing tool whether it was one of the good ones or not. They will inevitably show this disc full of images to others (or print them, or what have you), and gladly tell them who's handy work it is. The viewer will then say.... "Wow, that one didn't turn out very well..... neither did that one! How much did you pay this person again?"

If they don't turn out, dump them, don't advertise with them.

M7 .02, IANAL, YMMV etc. etc. etc.

Bridget Greenwood · Feb 24, 2011

I just tell them I put all the images on the disk, they don't know or need to know how many you edited or didn't turn out. Putting bad images on a disk makes you look bad, don't do this ever.

RealityCaptured · Feb 24, 2011

I would just explain what your keep:delete ratio is and how that works. I'd also explain that if all the images are given and they print/post one that you originally wanted to get rid of for whatever reason (slight camera shake for example) then even though they like it it can bring down your reputation having that picture out there.

GooniesNeverSayDie11 · Feb 24, 2011

I would tell them that they are not representative of your quality standards and can be detrimental to your reputation as a photographer. They are also unfinished works due to not being processed or "developed" correctly. It would be like a famous painter giving out all of the screw up canvases that he painted before arriving at his masterpiece, or a director giving out all of the footage of an actor constantly flubbing their lines. You have a reputation to build/uphold for your business and quality of product delivered. This is why this should ALWAYS be in your written agreement/contract.

LBPhotog · Feb 24, 2011

you answer it this way, "I'm perfect and I don't make mistakes!" *lol* :lmao:

I'm sure we have all had to deal with this one from time-to-time. I think it's even worse when they remember you took a certain image and they don't see that specific one there and they ask, "what about that image where ... "

If it's for a wedding client I just tell them that I immediately eliminate the images where someone has blinked and/or is not looking at the camera. I will also go as far as to mention to them that I wouldn't want to present them a product that doesn't portray them in the most beautiful way possible on their most memorable day. I would also, as diplomatically as possible, tell them that if they hired me to begin with they must have had some sort of faith in my judgment as to what they were looking for in the way of images. Also, I think there's a lot of humility in saying, "hey, sometimes that pose/that lighting/that idea just didn't work like I thought it would and I wasn't happy at all with the results." I think that if we put a "human" touch to ourselves our clients really do appreciate that.

Ultimately it comes down to "Client Relations" tell them what you think they need to hear; and, remember, the difference between GOOD BS and BAD BS is this confidence in which it is delivered with.

Big Mike · Feb 24, 2011

There is a quite/saying somewhere that goes like this...
"The difference between a good photographer and a bad photographer, is the size of their wastepaper basket."

In other words, you are more likely to be thought of as a good photographer, if you only show people your best shots....while those that show people all of their photos, tend to be thought of as poorer photographers.

As for what to tell the clients, it's usually best to tell the truth and just say that the ones they didn't see, didn't meet your professional standards. You could also tell them that you don't expect all of your shots to be keepers...and maybe explain to them your average keeper rate and whether or not you hit that with their shoot. As mentioned, being confident is key.

There are certainly times when your keeper rate will be higher or lower. Sometimes I have to tell the clients that because their kids were 'being so difficult', the keeper rate was lower that I would have wanted or expected.

JenLavazza · Feb 24, 2011

Yeah, I was thinking about answering very close to what goonies said.... Since that is my MAIN reason for not releasing EVERY photo snapped. I think people that go to chain places get used to seeing all the images...good and bad...and so they expect that elsewhere. How's this:

Since 90% of my business comes from word of mouth I only release those photos that are technically correct and/or correctly processed. The others are deleted immediately.

Simple, direct, true.....I have a habit of over explaining myself, so I'm trying to not do that!! lol

JenLavazza · Feb 24, 2011

Oooh, I like that too "just say that the ones they didn't see, didn't meet your professional standards."

Big Mike · Feb 24, 2011

Another trick I've heard (never tried) is to find a photos where the person asking (a bride for example) is making a funny or ugly face...show them that one, and tell them that all the others looked like that. :lol:

MichiganFarts · Feb 24, 2011

What other industry purposely displays, and presents to customers the failed products? None that I can think of.

KmH · Feb 24, 2011

This is an issue that should be addressed as one of the terms in your contract.

"For a variety of reasons, not all the images made during a shoot meet professional standards of quality. Images that fail to meet those standards are discarded."

bentcountershaft · Feb 24, 2011

Ask them if they are allowed to lick the chef's mixing bowl at a restaurant.

Studio7Four · Feb 24, 2011

Sorry to veer a bit from your original question, but I have a somewhat relevant question about your workflow. I saw on your website that your general package includes ~12-15 fully edited images - who selects those? Do you chose them yourself or do you offer some method of proofing which allows the parents to select? The reason I ask is the specific wording of the request in your original post:

JenLavazza said:
"...something a little sad about not seeing ALL of them even if they didn't all turn out."

To me this suggests that the parents don't necessarily want to print/publicize unfinished photos, they just want to see (perhaps just once) everything you captured. Perhaps they do remember a specific shot they think you got, or perhaps it's just curiosity.

I agree with not supplying unedited photos - you certainly do have your reputation to consider. Not that I'm a pro, but as a point of reference my workflow when I do a TF model shoot is: delete all the unsalvageable photos, do a batch rename (so that the deletion gaps are not noticeable), run a batch action to resize to low-res and splash "PROOF" across the image, and drop the images online (Flickr) for the model to view. I'll recommend some favorites, but quite often she'll select different shots than I would have to be edited. Perhaps you could edit one or two of your favorites (to give a feel for the processing treatment the edited images will have), then let the parents review the proofs. Quite often there will be similar shots - to you it's a flip of the coin which you use, but perhaps the parent (in my case, the model) sees something in one of them that makes it much more desirable than the other. For instance, my little one had a habit of craning her neck a particular way. I doubt a random photographer would have thought anything of it (and maybe even actively disliked the pose), but if the picture were technically correct enough to be edited that's one that I as a parent would have wanted. If you don't do any proofing it is an extra step and it's up to you to decide if it's worth the extra effort. But if parents have more of a say in which photos you may have a better chance of selling them that one photo which they're willing to buy in a large print from you. Just a thought...