Best way to shoot "Battle of the Bands" at school

[sobolik]

Many photos have been taken of bands. The question for me would be what can I do to get DRAMATIC Attention ARRESTING GREAT photos. Given the layout you describe here is what I would be sure to do get the Ohh and ahh shots.

I would take my mono pod that I got at Walmart for $16.00 and hang my camera upside down almost on the floor while I squatted on the raised walkway. The timer would let me get it down there in time to go off. Better yet invest the small amount of money in a shutter releas remote control. I would be sure to use my 12-24mm lens set at my predetermined mm from my pre show experiments. The wide angle lens fantasic depth of field ensures in focus shots to be cropped later (won't be able to see through viewfinder at time of capture) The photo is simply rotated upright later.

I use this technique all the time for weddings except I don't need the monopod or timer because I am standing/squatting with camera at floor level and am not on a raised platform.
I also use this technique all the time in crowds such as parades except the rig is not upside down but held high over the crowds at the end of the monopod.

 

[Village Idiot]

and hang my camera upside down almost on the floor while I squatted on the raised walkway.

You sir, perplex me, and for that I thank you? ldman:

 

[Bend The Light]

I work in the IT department. Hate me yet?

A little...yes.

For all of those recommending the OP use long lenses, do you know how hard that's going to be for him? Are you seriously that out of touch with photography that you think a Canon XTI with a 135mm or 70-300 variable aperture lens has a chance in a high school, stage lit environment?

I can see this, yes...although light-wise, would the 135mm, at f2.8 allow slightly better performance in the poor lighting? My 75-300 is only f4-5.6.
The only faster lens I have than f2.8 is the 50mm f1.8. But bear in mind these are manual - m42 lenses on an unwired/chipped adaptor. Manual focus.
The 135mm is easy to focus, the 50mm is not so easy...can never seem to find the focus ring, or turn the wrong one, and close down the aperture. Maybe that's just me not knowing the lens? I do know the 135mm quite well, I use it for macro on the end of my macro tubes - also has a locking ring for the aperture so I can make it so I can't accidently stop down...

I must say that I am leaning towards middle ground, 135mm between 1/3 and 1/2 way from the stage.

My erstwhile assistants (students) will be shooting with LUMIX DSLRs with the kit lens (think it was 14 - 45mm or something).

Cheers

 

[Derrel]

For all of those recommending the OP use long lenses, do you know how hard that's going to be for him? Are you seriously that out of touch with photography that you think a Canon XTI with a 135mm or 70-300 variable aperture lens has a chance in a high school, stage lit environment?

Based on the OP's description of his equipment, yes, his 135mm f/2.8 is going to be one of his best low-light event lenses, since it is an f/2.8 lens, and it is long enough in focal length, and has a high enough image magnification, that it will be relatively easy to focus manually on the XTi body. It is also long enough to give him somewhat selective light metering. The camera-to-subject distance will also be long enough that spot-on, ultra-critical focusing will also not be nearly as necessary as if he were much closer to the stage. So yes, Village Idiot, you look like a fool for questioning people much older and with decades more experience than you. Notice how gsgary used a 300mm f/2.8 for his shot? See how good that looks? Ah...newbies...sorry VIllage Idiot, but I GREW UP USING a 135mm f/2.8 as a low-light "event" lens...I actually own a couple of them, as well as faster f/2 models from both Nikon and Canon...the 135mm lens is a STAPLE, a "basic", a "building block" for low-light work....not that you own one or anything, because it is quite clear that if you did own a 135mm f/2.8 prime lens, you would know what I'm talking about. Instead, you're just here, mouthing off,questioning the judgement of older, more-experienced shooters, as per usual.

 

[Village Idiot]

For all of those recommending the OP use long lenses, do you know how hard that's going to be for him? Are you seriously that out of touch with photography that you think a Canon XTI with a 135mm or 70-300 variable aperture lens has a chance in a high school, stage lit environment?

Based on the OP's description of his equipment, yes, his 135mm f/2.8 is going to be one of his best low-light event lenses, since it is an f/2.8 lens, and it is long enough in focal length, and has a high enough image magnification, that it will be relatively easy to focus manually on the XTi body. It is also long enough to give him somewhat selective light metering. The camera-to-subject distance will also be long enough that spot-on, ultra-critical focusing will also not be nearly as necessary as if he were much closer to the stage. So yes, Village Idiot, you look like a fool for questioning people much older and with decades more experience than you. Notice how gsgary used a 300mm f/2.8 for his shot? See how good that looks? Ah...newbies...sorry VIllage Idiot, but I GREW UP USING a 135mm f/2.8 as a low-light "event" lens...I actually own a couple of them, as well as faster f/2 models from both Nikon and Canon...the 135mm lens is a STAPLE, a "basic", a "building block" for low-light work....not that you own one or anything, because it is quite clear that if you did own a 135mm f/2.8 prime lens, you would know what I'm talking about. Instead, you're just here, mouthing off,questioning the judgement of older, more-experienced shooters, as per usual.

When is the last time you shot a concert guy? When is the last time you actually held a camera?

Oh wait, unless people are shooting with Nikon and Speedotron equipment, you're going to try and mock them and belittle them.

Remember what I said? Being old does not make you good.

Maybe back in your day when you had to wait 10 minutes for an exposure it was a good lens, but now when we can use ISO 6400 and shoot in near darkness, it's not quite the same.

Tell me again how fast the horse and carriage used to be?

 

[Derrel]

I own and shoot CANON equipment for the most part. The OP shoots a Canon XTi,and he has a number of adapted lenses he uses on his XTi, so he will need all the advantages he can get for manually focusing....but see, that's something I am familiar with: I too, own Canon bodies, plural, and have used manually focusing lenses since the mid-1970's, and have used manually focusing lenses on my Canon bodies as recently as last week; a 135mm f/2.8 lens of almost any make or model is a pretty decent, standardized piece of equipment, which has since the 1960's, been used by experienced photographers who need to capture "events" in a candid, or reportorial style. A 135/2.8 is a staple of many experienced shooters.

Sorry, Village Idiot, but you've done nothing but attack me yesterday, the day before, and this AM, the first thing you did when you got to work was to do an attack post directed at me--a brand new post, directed at ME! ( of course, you spelled my name wrong in the title and the post, but you are, the Village Idiot). You seem to have a real,serious obsession with me....sort of that desire of the younger male to prove himself against the older males of the tribe kinda' thing going on...

I'm sorry dude, but it is clear that you do not own a 135mm f/2.8 prime lens, nor have any experience at all from which to draw on. I mean, how could you even know how to use something like a 135/2.8 manual focusing lens for event work when you've been shooting for like two years? The OP does not have a camera that will shoot well at ISO 6,400--he even points out his XTi's rather severe ISO limitations in his post...ergo, you're not paying any attention to the OP's actual equipment limitations, but are instead just running your mouth at me.

I am here trying to help the OP get some decent shots at the school where he is a teacher...meanwhile, you're here attacking other people who suggest using longer lenses for various reasons, and acting like a petulant 16 year-old student who ought to be at the battle of the bands, in the audience, cheering on his friends who are in a band. Seriously, a 135mm f/2.8 prime telephoto lens is an excellent low-light/event/photojournalism lens, but it is alas, a piece of equipment that most younger photographers today have never owned, never rented, never even used. Your unqualified dismissal of longer lenses for low-light work is based upon your inexperience, I get that. Why, exactly, are you trying to dismiss equipment you do not have any experience with? Remember--the OP stated, clearly, that he has an XTi,and that it has poor high-ISO performance...and you're on about ISO 6,400 cameras and showing off your ISO 4,000 shot...his camera cannot do that high of an ISO. Stick to the actual gear he owns!!

 

[Village Idiot]

I own and shoot CANON equipment for the most part. The OP shoots a Canon XTi,and he has a number of adapted lenses he uses on his XTi, so he will need all the advantages he can get for manually focusing....but see, that's something I am familiar with: I too, own Canon bodies, plural, and have used manually focusing lenses since the mid-1970's, and have used manually focusing lenses on my Canon bodies as recently as last week; a 135mm f/2.8 lens of almost any make or model is a pretty decent, standardized piece of equipment, which has since the 1960's, been used by experienced photographers who need to capture "events" in a candid, or reportorial style.

Sorry, VIllage Idiot, but you've done nothing but attack me yesterday, the day before, and this AM, the first thing you did when you got to work was to do an attack post directed at me--a brand new post, directed at ME! ( of course, you spelled my name wrong in the title and the post, but you are, the Village Idiot). You seem to have a real,serious obsession with me....sort of that desire of the younger male to prove himself against the older males of the tribe kinda' thing going on...

I'm sorry dude, but it is clear that you do not own a 135mm f/2.8 prime lens, or have any experience at all from which to draw on. I mean, how could you even know how to use something like a 135/2.8 manual focusing lens for event work when you've been shooting for like two years? The OP does not have a camera that will shoot well at ISO 6,400--he even points out his XTi's rather severe ISO limitations in his post...eergo, you're not paying any attention to the OP's actual equipment limitations, but are instead just running your mouth at me.

I am here trying to help the OP get some decent shots at the school where he is a teacher...meanwhile, you're here attacking other people who suggest using longer lenses for various reasons, and acting like a petulant 16 year-old student who ought to be at the battle of the bands, in the audience, cheering on his friends who are in a band. Seriously, a 135mm f/2.8 prime telephoto lens is an excellent low-light/event/photojournalism lens, but it is alas, a piece of equipment that most younger photographers today have never owned, never rented, never even used. Your unqualified dismissal of longer lenses for low-light work is based upon your inexperience, I get that. Why,exactly, are you trying to dismiss equipment you do not have any experience with? Remember--the OP stated, clearly, that he has an XTi,and that it has poor high-ISO performance...

Whens the last time you even shot a band in a concert venue? Ye old barber shop quartet does not count either. Lets see if you have any real concert photography experience or if you're just being the same old keyboard jockey we know and love.

Remember? Being old does not make you good. Lets see some examples of your wonderful concert photography work.

In the words of my hero, "Time to nut up or shut up!"

 

[Derrel]

Derrel's Photography Blog: Don't Believe The Slanderous Claptrap

Seriously, get back to work at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, where you are allegedly supposed to be at work,serving the public interest! I love your personal vendetta against me...it makes me feel like I'm back in junior high school again!

This is a newbie forum, and I expect that newbies will always continue to try and challenged older, more-experienced, better-equipped shooters. Sorry kid...you really are a piece of work. Back when you were being born, I was in journalism school, shooting Pac-10 sports,news,and events with a 135mm f/2.8 lens...you...were in diapers...why you gotta' bash on equipment you've never even used?

The OP has a 135/2.8 and a low-ISO body that tops out at ISO 1,600...when I was your age, ISO 1,600 was the top ISO we could realistically get shadow detail with. I've covered and had published many low-light sports and event photos done with a 135/2.8 on ASA 400 film pushed to 1,600 Exposure Index--and that is what the OP is limited to. He does not have your camera or your equipment...my answers are tailored to his specific equipment, and to manually focusing in poor light--yet again, another thing that young shooters are pretty much unfamiliar with.

 

[Village Idiot]

Derrel's Photography Blog: Don't Believe The Slanderous Claptrap

Seriously, get back to work at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, where you are allegedly supposed to be at work,serving the public interest! I love your personal vendetta against me...it makes me feel like I'm back in junior high school again!

This is a newbie forum, and I expect that newbies will always continue to try and challenged older, more-experienced, better-equipped shooters. Sorry kid...you really are a piece of work. Back when you were being born, I was in journalism school, shooting Pac-10 sports,news,and events with a 135mm f/2.8 lens...you...were in diapers...why you gotta' bash on equipment you've never even used?

The OP has a 135/2.8 and a low-ISO body that tops out at ISO 1,600...when I was your age, ISO 1,600 was the top ISO we could realistically get shadow detail with. I've covered and had published many low-light sports and event photos done with a 135/2.8 on ASA 400 film pushed to 1,600 Exposure Index--and that is what the OP is limited to. He does not have your camera or your equipment...my answers are tailored to his specific equipment, and to manually focusing in poor light--yet again, another thing that young shooters are pretty much unfamiliar with.

More hot air, still no proof.

 

[Bend The Light]

Well, I think I have made my decision. I think I am going to go with the 135mm f2.8...the only faster lens I have is the 50mm f1.8 which I am not confident I will focus well in the circumstances. The 135 is a solid lens which gives me stability (evidence in my macro work), which will be good in low light, slow shutter.

Yes, the 400d (XTi) can only hit 1600 ISO, and it gets quite grainy. I have used it in a sensory room with my disabled daughter - low light with fibre optics and glitter lights etc. I had to use Noise Reduction in those pics, which was ok, but would have been better not to have to use that. I went in the school hall today, with a few curtains open, a few closed. Stood 1/2 way down the walkway (see diagram) with the 18-55mm kit lens I was getting at best 1/40s exposure, at ISO 800. Unless I get the light man to do something, I'm going to struggle with that (that is f3.5 at widest).

The 135mm, I have always liked - it seems to "gather" light - it has a great big front element - just seems to help when focussing. And as I said (did I?) that I will be able to lock the aperture which makes life easier for me...

The assistants (students, aged 16ish, even more novice than me!) will get scattered about the hall with their Lumix dSLRs with 14-45mm lenses. You never know, they may get the shot of the night!

Anyway, think that's my mind made up...thanks to EVERYONE who commented and gave me ideas and things to think about, whether others think it's right or wrong. We all have different ways of working, and I have yet to develop my own.

Cheers

Craig

 

[Bend The Light]

Many photos have been taken of bands. The question for me would be what can I do to get DRAMATIC Attention ARRESTING GREAT photos. Given the layout you describe here is what I would be sure to do get the Ohh and ahh shots.

I would take my mono pod that I got at Walmart for $16.00 and hang my camera upside down almost on the floor while I squatted on the raised walkway. The timer would let me get it down there in time to go off. Better yet invest the small amount of money in a shutter releas remote control. I would be sure to use my 12-24mm lens set at my predetermined mm from my pre show experiments. The wide angle lens fantasic depth of field ensures in focus shots to be cropped later (won't be able to see through viewfinder at time of capture) The photo is simply rotated upright later.

I use this technique all the time for weddings except I don't need the monopod or timer because I am standing/squatting with camera at floor level and am not on a raised platform.
I also use this technique all the time in crowds such as parades except the rig is not upside down but held high over the crowds at the end of the monopod.

Sorry, Sobolik - I think I missed your post. Thanks for your input, too. Not sure I'm supple enough for crouching these days but it's a thought. I'd love a camera with Live View, I think, both for this sort of thing, and for my macro bug shoots...but I need more money first!

Cheers

Craig

 

[gsgary]

If you had lived a bit nearer you cold have had a play with my 300mmF2.8L

 

[Bend The Light]

If you had lived a bit nearer you cold have had a play with my 300mmF2.8L

Which bit of chesterfield do you live in...know it reasonably well. Mind you - I play with some nice toys and I would end up sad, becuase there's no way in the foreseeable future that I could afford anything like it.

 

[Bend The Light]

Just for interest - I went to the dress rehearsal for a show that my daughter is in at the weekend. I took my camera along, and the 135mm f2.8 manual lens. I took over 350 shots on the night, and I am still processing.
I was after some idea as to how the "Battle of the Bands" shots might look.
How do these look? Should I watch for anything that would make these better? I was struggling for light as the stage lights were hit and miss (it was rehearsal) and most are shot at f2.8, although on occasion I managed f5.6...
Kids in Joseph Framed by Bend The Light, on Flickr
Edgar Allen Poe 6 Framed by Bend The Light, on Flickr
Brooklyn as Joseph 3 Framed by Bend The Light, on Flickr
Lion King Trio 2 Framed by Bend The Light, on Flickr

 

[JasonLambert]

Nice... I don't see you having any problems.