Bokeh or not?

[Steve5D]

Yeah, it's hard not to completely dig that lens...

 

[ecphoto]

Define 'tight budget' in dollars, but it will depend on the prime lens focal length you want. Nikon 85mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras

You won't likely get superior bokeh from any consumer grade (tight budget) prime lens, because the best consumer grade lenses usually only have 7 aperture blades.

I need an EF-S lens and can spring between 300-400 at the moment.

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[ecphoto]

Bokeh is not adjustable. It's an inherent quality of a lens design. There are 2 kinds of bokeh - cream cheese bokeh and hollywood bokeh. Cream cheese bokeh is very smooth and uniform. Hollywood bokeh is nice very round specular highlights.

The number and shape of the lens aperture blades and the blade edges has a lot to do with the quality of the bokeh a lens produces. Optical design also plays a part.

Canon's inexpensive, 5 blade (straight), 50 mm f/1.8 II lens is renouned for the low quality, nervous, garring, jittery bokeh it produces, while Nikon's 9 blade (curved), AF 85 mm f/1.4 is nicknamed "The Cream Machine" because of the silky smooth, cream cheese type bokeh it produces.

Thanks KMH, you've explained it really well. I've never really understood it before now. I'm on a tight budget, what would kind of prime would you recommend to get those cream cheese results? I shoot canon(APSc).

The Canon 50mm f/1.4 is a good choice. Pretty high optical quality, and it has 8 aperture blades which produces far more pleasing renditions of out of focus areas. The lens can be had for ~$350, and is very worth it when compared to the 50mm f/1.8. It was the first prime lens I bought, and I still use it regularly.

Would you say that 50 or 85mm is better for portraiture?

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[o hey tyler]

Thanks KMH, you've explained it really well. I've never really understood it before now. I'm on a tight budget, what would kind of prime would you recommend to get those cream cheese results? I shoot canon(APSc).

The Canon 50mm f/1.4 is a good choice. Pretty high optical quality, and it has 8 aperture blades which produces far more pleasing renditions of out of focus areas. The lens can be had for ~$350, and is very worth it when compared to the 50mm f/1.8. It was the first prime lens I bought, and I still use it regularly.

Would you say that 50 or 85mm is better for portraiture?

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They're both usable for portraiture. The 50mm will be a more versatile focal length for everyday shooting, but the 85mm will have a shallower DoF due to the focal length. I usually shoot portraits with an 85mm on a full frame camera.

Why do you say you need an EF-s lens?

 

[ecphoto]

The Canon 50mm f/1.4 is a good choice. Pretty high optical quality, and it has 8 aperture blades which produces far more pleasing renditions of out of focus areas. The lens can be had for ~$350, and is very worth it when compared to the 50mm f/1.8. It was the first prime lens I bought, and I still use it regularly.

Would you say that 50 or 85mm is better for portraiture?

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They're both usable for portraiture. The 50mm will be a more versatile focal length for everyday shooting, but the 85mm will have a shallower DoF due to the focal length. I usually shoot portraits with an 85mm on a full frame camera.

Why do you say you need an EF-s lens?

I'm shooting with a 550D with the 1.6x crop factor. I could us an EF lens, but I had a bunch of problems in the past when I went from Minolta to Sony digital...I had 35mm lenses with a crop sensor. My experience would probably be thousand times better since its Canon, but I'm chicken and don't want to risk barrel distortion or CA lol

 

[Buckster]

Would you say that 50 or 85mm is better for portraiture?

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They're both usable for portraiture. The 50mm will be a more versatile focal length for everyday shooting, but the 85mm will have a shallower DoF due to the focal length. I usually shoot portraits with an 85mm on a full frame camera.

Why do you say you need an EF-s lens?

I'm shooting with a 550D with the 1.6x crop factor. I could us an EF lens, but I had a bunch of problems in the past when I went from Minolta to Sony digital. My experience has been a thousand times better, but I'm chicken and don't want to risk barrel distortion or CA lol.

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You won't have those kinds of problems at all using EF lenses on crop cameras. In fact, just the opposite because those problems happen on the outer edges, and the crop sensor will isolate thoes problems away by using the middle of the EF lenses only.

Eventually, you may want to step up to a full frame camera, and then those EF-s lenses will no longer work for you on the new camera, and you'll wish you'd gotten the full frame EF lenses instead.

 

[ecphoto]

They're both usable for portraiture. The 50mm will be a more versatile focal length for everyday shooting, but the 85mm will have a shallower DoF due to the focal length. I usually shoot portraits with an 85mm on a full frame camera.

Why do you say you need an EF-s lens?

I'm shooting with a 550D with the 1.6x crop factor. I could us an EF lens, but I had a bunch of problems in the past when I went from Minolta to Sony digital. My experience has been a thousand times better, but I'm chicken and don't want to risk barrel distortion or CA lol.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

You won't have those kinds of problems at all using EF lenses on crop cameras. In fact, just the opposite because those problems happen on the outer edges, and the crop sensor will isolate thoes problems away by using the middle of the EF lenses only.

Eventually, you may want to step up to a full frame camera, and then those EF-s lenses will no longer work for you on the new camera, and you'll wish you'd gotten the full frame EF lenses instead.

Buck,
I've seen a lot of used EF lenses that are older from even before digital selling for cheap. Think if I went that route I'd have slow focusing issues?

 

[Dao]

All Canon EOS series cameras (Digital or film based) works with all EF mount lenses. In addition to the EF mount, those EOS digital cameras with a cropped sensor can also works with Canon EF-S mount lenses. (EDIT: there are exception in some old cropped digital body that it use EF mount lens only)

In your case, your camera will take both EF and EF-S lenses.


As for lens selling for cheap. The price usually reflects the quality of the lens whether it is old or new. I used to have a EF 50mm f/1.8 MK1 lens made in the 80's. Of course it works on all my cropped Canon EOS digital cameras. And I sold the lens for higher than a new EF 50mm f/1.8 MKII. It is because the market price of that lens is higher because of the lens build quality as well as few other things, even it is old and used.

Slow focus or not, it depends on the lens. You can buy a new lens in EF-S mount without USM while some old EF lenses has USM. Of course, those has USM (Ultra Sonic Motor, I believe) should focus faster.

For example, the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM lens were introduced back in 1992 while the EF-S 18-200mm IS lens (introduce in 2008) use micro-motor only. I am pretty sure that the EF 85mm is must faster in AF than the EF-S 18-200mm lens.

 

[Buckster]

Buck,
I've seen a lot of used EF lenses that are older from even before digital selling for cheap. Think if I went that route I'd have slow focusing issues?

As Dao said, it's really going to depend on the lens. Cheap lenses are cheap for a reason, and it's usually because they're slow - either optically or mechanically or both.

If it's way too cheap for what it is, it's probably damaged, though there is always the possibility that the person selling doesn't know the worth of it, or just needs immediate cash.

 

[DiskoJoe]

Bokeh is not adjustable. It's an inherent quality of a lens design. There are 2 kinds of bokeh - cream cheese bokeh and hollywood bokeh. Cream cheese bokeh is very smooth and uniform. Hollywood bokeh is nice very round specular highlights.

The number and shape of the lens aperture blades and the blade edges has a lot to do with the quality of the bokeh a lens produces. Optical design also plays a part.

Canon's inexpensive, 5 blade (straight), 50 mm f/1.8 II lens is renouned for the low quality, nervous, garring, jittery bokeh it produces, while Nikon's 9 blade (curved), AF 85 mm f/1.4 is nicknamed "The Cream Machine" because of the silky smooth, cream cheese type bokeh it produces.

MMMMMM, tasty!

 

[ecphoto]

Buck,
I've seen a lot of used EF lenses that are older from even before digital selling for cheap. Think if I went that route I'd have slow focusing issues?

As Dao said, it's really going to depend on the lens. Cheap lenses are cheap for a reason, and it's usually because they're slow - either optically or mechanically or both.

If it's way too cheap for what it is, it's probably damaged, though there is always the possibility that the person selling doesn't know the worth of it, or just needs immediate cash.

Very true, I can't cheap my way to quality LOL. When I used to shoot Minolta A-mount I would check the quality of new or used lenses on dynax digital, is there a website like that for Canon ?


I'm also looking into getting a telephoto lens

http://www.adorama.com/SG5020045EOS.html

Or

http://www.adorama.com/TM75300EOS.html

Are either any good?

P.s. thanks for all the help and advice everyone.

 

[Dao]

If you looking for low cost telephoto zoom lens, you can take a look at the Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS lens.


Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS - Retest @ 15mp / Review

 

[sovietdoc]

Using DoF is just like using any other "technique." It has a number of uses, if photographer understands what it does and how to use it, he will be able to use it as a tool to get the result he has envisioned. There are too many shots when people use DoF poorly. Too much or too little can quickly ruin the shot.

As Dao said, it's really going to depend on the lens. Cheap lenses are cheap for a reason, and it's usually because they're slow - either optically or mechanically or both.

Well, Canon's 85mil f/1.2L isn't really "cheap" but it's pretty darn slow to focus

 

[Dikkie1]

if you're using Photoshop....you already have a program that can do it. its not a 'dedicated' bokeh program...assuming you use anything beyond Lightroom to do your edits you can create a fake sense of bokeh but really its just blurring the background. it wont look anywhere near the real thing

Exactly, a blur with photoshop looks totally different. Example:

 

[Dikkie1]

They're both usable for portraiture. The 50mm will be a more versatile focal length for everyday shooting, but the 85mm will have a shallower DoF due to the focal length. I usually shoot portraits with an 85mm on a full frame camera.

Exactly.

I just made an example to show a nice difference:

This one is a 85mm Nikkor F1.8, shot at F2.2:

While this one is shot with a Sigma 30mm F1.4 at F2.2 aswel:

They're shot a different day, with different light conditions, but about the blur or bokeh or whatever... I'm more happy with the 85mm lens.
The advantage of the 30mm lens is that you're more flexible... for example to shoot streetphotos.