Boundaries

[Benco]

It looks like it's a bit tightly cropped and I'm not too keen on the intensity of the backlight, a bit overblown. Other than that I like it.

I actually didn't do any post-photo editing but thank you for the feedback. It is something that I can take and work with so much appreciated.

Aye, I didn't phrase that very well, I meant either too tightly cropped or a bit too zoomed in. I hadn't assumed that you'd neccessarily post processed it.

 

[Juga]

It looks like it's a bit tightly cropped and I'm not too keen on the intensity of the backlight, a bit overblown. Other than that I like it.

I actually didn't do any post-photo editing but thank you for the feedback. It is something that I can take and work with so much appreciated.

Aye, I didn't phrase that very well, I meant either too tightly cropped or a bit too zoomed in. I hadn't assumed that you'd neccessarily post processed it.

Roger Dodger. Something I am still learning is to move around and take several different angles and approaches to the same content and to not go in for the obvious shot. Sometimes I slip back into the 'point and shoot' mindset as I like to call it.

 

[TCampbell]

What do YOU expect a viewer to get from this image?

Not to be rude but I honestly dislike this question every time and every way it is asked. If you have to ask me then the message isn't clear but don't answer a question with a question just give me straight forward feedback. Maybe I am just being an 'a' hole but most people on here don't know how to give constructive criticism. I am a big boy and can handle truth. If I ever expect to grow and learn the art of photography then I need people to be straight forward with me.

Actually it's a fair question. There might be a lot of reasons why a person might take a shot, but one of many things that can help us all grow as photographers is to ask ourselves WHY we were drawn to take a particular photo. We might see an interesting pattern or color combinations, the image might be humorous or sad... or it might be none of these things and it's a documentary image (e.g. shooting your kids graduation... you're shooting it because you want to preserve the memory of it.)

Also I do not believe every picture has to have deep meaning that provokes life changing thoughts. Likewise I understand the concept of composition which people often confuse for intent. Composition is simply the arrangement of visual elements within a frame.

Anyway pgriz to answer your question...It is simply a picture of a boundary I came across that I thought visually I can compose well with the beach, sunrise, and the numerous pilings lining the beach with the same sign. Maybe its deep meaning is that I should stop trying to grow as a photographer and have hit my boundary. What does it tell you?

And that's a fair enough answer. Sometimes I take a photo not because I know it looks interesting, but because I'm willing to test it and see if it does look interesting. Later, I can decide whether or not it worked and perhaps even identify WHY it did or didn't work. In identifying the "why", I will hopefully become a better photographer.

In any case... you did ASK for C&C. Whenever you ASK, you should be prepared for any answer. You were not attacked or berated, your image was not disparaged... he simply asked a fair question: what did YOU expect a viewer to get from this?

If you post an image for C&C, we get to assume you're learning. Like it or not, one way you learn is to be forced to solve problems... forced to answer questions.

There's a photographer who runs classes and takes students out shooting in the field. He'll pull out a lens, then notice that his students will pull out the same or similar lens. He'll ASK them: Why did YOU pull out that lens? It's not that the lens choice is bad or wrong, but HE (the instructor) knows why HE pulled out the lens. He wants to know if the students used a thought process when selecting the lens (or if they were just doing it because they saw him do it.) If the latter (they grabbed the lens because they saw him grab the lens) then the students aren't learning. If the former (they had a thought process behind the selection which was more than just grabbing the lens someone else was using) then they're not learning, they're just copying.



Ok, so here's MY C&C:

I see an image which, more than emotional, is structural in nature. It's got a repetitive pattern and structure. In the near right field you've got a post with lots of grain and detail and then the pattern trailing off toward the left. Unfortunately the pattern goes soft. The piles are not objects of beauty... this isn't a meadow full of flowers. There's no need to use a shallow depth of field here and, since I consider this image to be more of a pattern or rhythm with structure, I'd have much preferred sharp detail. I'd also consider presenting this in black & white ... which tends to show pattern and structure in a less distracting way than a color image.

I'd probably dodge the piles to lighten them up a bit and show a bit more detail.

If I'm flipping through a pile of images and you want an image to stand out, the image needs some kind of "stopping value". Something needs to pop in that image. This isn't an emotional subject (it doesn't make me laugh or cry or evoke any emotion). It doesn't have stunning color. It doesn't play games with my mind. So ask yourself: What does THIS image have going for it... what's it's strongest element? For me... I think it's strongest element is the structure and pattern and the potential for sharp detail. It was shot in a way that doesn't reveal that detail.

When I go out shooting, I can grab a camera and go for a walk and shoot random subjects -OR- I can go shooting with some stretch goals that will help train my eye to notice things. For example... I can go shooting with the thought of looking for certain color combinations that create balance of color. Or I can look for images that reveal texture. I look for images that show strength, or... gentleness. Sometimes I look for one thing and end up finding something completely different... which is still ok, because the point of the exercise is to train your brain to notice the subjects around you based on the traits they offer rather than just random things.

This is why I think pgriz' question is totally valid and you should embrace it and answer it RATHER than reject it as not being valid C&C.

If you can answer his question then you're learning. If you can't then not only are you not learning... you're not yet ready to learn.

Is that a harsh answer? Perhaps. But you did say you were a big boy and could handle the truth... so I gave you the truth. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you... rather take this as something that was intended to be constructive and hopefully change the way you think about C&C and even better if it changes the way you think about taking photographs.

 

[Juga]

What do YOU expect a viewer to get from this image?

Not to be rude but I honestly dislike this question every time and every way it is asked. If you have to ask me then the message isn't clear but don't answer a question with a question just give me straight forward feedback. Maybe I am just being an 'a' hole but most people on here don't know how to give constructive criticism. I am a big boy and can handle truth. If I ever expect to grow and learn the art of photography then I need people to be straight forward with me.

Actually it's a fair question. There might be a lot of reasons why a person might take a shot, but one of many things that can help us all grow as photographers is to ask ourselves WHY we were drawn to take a particular photo. We might see an interesting pattern or color combinations, the image might be humorous or sad... or it might be none of these things and it's a documentary image (e.g. shooting your kids graduation... you're shooting it because you want to preserve the memory of it.)

Also I do not believe every picture has to have deep meaning that provokes life changing thoughts. Likewise I understand the concept of composition which people often confuse for intent. Composition is simply the arrangement of visual elements within a frame.

Anyway pgriz to answer your question...It is simply a picture of a boundary I came across that I thought visually I can compose well with the beach, sunrise, and the numerous pilings lining the beach with the same sign. Maybe its deep meaning is that I should stop trying to grow as a photographer and have hit my boundary. What does it tell you?

And that's a fair enough answer. Sometimes I take a photo not because I know it looks interesting, but because I'm willing to test it and see if it does look interesting. Later, I can decide whether or not it worked and perhaps even identify WHY it did or didn't work. In identifying the "why", I will hopefully become a better photographer.

In any case... you did ASK for C&C. Whenever you ASK, you should be prepared for any answer. You were not attacked or berated, your image was not disparaged... he simply asked a fair question: what did YOU expect a viewer to get from this?

If you post an image for C&C, we get to assume you're learning. Like it or not, one way you learn is to be forced to solve problems... forced to answer questions.

There's a photographer who runs classes and takes students out shooting in the field. He'll pull out a lens, then notice that his students will pull out the same or similar lens. He'll ASK them: Why did YOU pull out that lens? It's not that the lens choice is bad or wrong, but HE (the instructor) knows why HE pulled out the lens. He wants to know if the students used a thought process when selecting the lens (or if they were just doing it because they saw him do it.) If the latter (they grabbed the lens because they saw him grab the lens) then the students aren't learning. If the former (they had a thought process behind the selection which was more than just grabbing the lens someone else was using) then they're not learning, they're just copying.



Ok, so here's MY C&C:

I see an image which, more than emotional, is structural in nature. It's got a repetitive pattern and structure. In the near right field you've got a post with lots of grain and detail and then the pattern trailing off toward the left. Unfortunately the pattern goes soft. The piles are not objects of beauty... this isn't a meadow full of flowers. There's no need to use a shallow depth of field here and, since I consider this image to be more of a pattern or rhythm with structure, I'd have much preferred sharp detail. I'd also consider presenting this in black & white ... which tends to show pattern and structure in a less distracting way than a color image.

I'd probably dodge the piles to lighten them up a bit and show a bit more detail.

If I'm flipping through a pile of images and you want an image to stand out, the image needs some kind of "stopping value". Something needs to pop in that image. This isn't an emotional subject (it doesn't make me laugh or cry or evoke any emotion). It doesn't have stunning color. It doesn't play games with my mind. So ask yourself: What does THIS image have going for it... what's it's strongest element? For me... I think it's strongest element is the structure and pattern and the potential for sharp detail. It was shot in a way that doesn't reveal that detail.

When I go out shooting, I can grab a camera and go for a walk and shoot random subjects -OR- I can go shooting with some stretch goals that will help train my eye to notice things. For example... I can go shooting with the thought of looking for certain color combinations that create balance of color. Or I can look for images that reveal texture. I look for images that show strength, or... gentleness. Sometimes I look for one thing and end up finding something completely different... which is still ok, because the point of the exercise is to train your brain to notice the subjects around you based on the traits they offer rather than just random things.

This is why I think pgriz' question is totally valid and you should embrace it and answer it RATHER than reject it as not being valid C&C.

If you can answer his question then you're learning. If you can't then not only are you not learning... you're not yet ready to learn.

Is that a harsh answer? Perhaps. But you did say you were a big boy and could handle the truth... so I gave you the truth. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you... rather take this as something that was intended to be constructive and hopefully change the way you think about C&C and even better if it changes the way you think about taking photographs.

Tim, actually this is great and exactly what I am looking for. I personally would have liked to do several different things with this image but after reading several references on composition and what equipment will do certain things I feel limited. I feel limited by what I can do with the equipment I have but that is no excuse on why I can't adapt to things I can do with what I have. I feel like I have learned a lot since posting several items to this forum but his question got under my skin in the way that it was presented. I believe I fell victim to what I call the 'ALL CAPS effect.' Again thank you for the feedback which will definitely be taken into consideration. Also, I am a big boy...I have the pants to prove it.

 

[pgriz]

Juga, here's a link to a post I wrote three years ago, about the process of taking a photograph - it will show you what thinking goes behind some of my image-making. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/.../227575-deliberate-act-taking-photograph.html

As for being limited by equipment, it is true that there are areas where new gear works much better (low light, fast action). But for most relatively static images, with accessories such as tripods, you can get pretty good shots without expensive gear. The trick is to learn how to read "light", and understand how what you see will be rendered in the image. My camera has a dynamic range of about 8 stops (I know because I tested it), and I have to adjust my exposure accordingly to ensure that what I want to present in the image fits into that dynamic range space. I have not yet ventured into HDR which would remove that limitation, and that may be something to learn in the future. But at the moment, it's about seeing an image, and then trying to figure out how to capture the "essence" of what I'm feeling.

 

[KenC]

There are a couple of ways in which this doesn't work for me. One is the aforementioned strong backlighting, which can be adjusted, but IMO not enough to make the foreground look good. The other is that there isn't enough depth of field. The background posts are so soft they end up being just a distraction, and I also think it would be better if at least some of the sand were a little sharper. Another issue, and this is more of a minor quibble, so take with a grain of salt, is that the right side of the foreground post is distracting because I end up looking at the bits of wood sticking out at the right edge. It's probably better when you use something like a pole as a framing element to crop right into it so there isn't some space beyond it; if there is, viewers will end up looking into that space instead of where you want them to look - at least that's my two cents on it ...

 

[Juga]

Juga, here's a link to a post I wrote three years ago, about the process of taking a photograph - it will show you what thinking goes behind some of my image-making. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/.../227575-deliberate-act-taking-photograph.html

As for being limited by equipment, it is true that there are areas where new gear works much better (low light, fast action). But for most relatively static images, with accessories such as tripods, you can get pretty good shots without expensive gear. The trick is to learn how to read "light", and understand how what you see will be rendered in the image. My camera has a dynamic range of about 8 stops (I know because I tested it), and I have to adjust my exposure accordingly to ensure that what I want to present in the image fits into that dynamic range space. I have not yet ventured into HDR which would remove that limitation, and that may be something to learn in the future. But at the moment, it's about seeing an image, and then trying to figure out how to capture the "essence" of what I'm feeling.

I agree and appreciate the pep talk of sorts. I am definitely still working on getting the whole composition and 'story telling' process going. I just finished Bryan Peterson's Understanding Composition which has helped quite a bit. I took this picture prior to that so while the placement/arrangement might be right it does need a bit more and my exposure is all wrong. I am working on getting a good collection of lenses but I still don't have a tripod yet...don't judge me.

 

[TonysTouch]

To me, this image is very bland. The fact that the one post is the only thing in focus suggests that it is the subject of the photo. Unfortunately, it isn't compelling enough to cover some of there other aspects of your image. The sign doesn't help take away from the posts that lead your eye out of frame, or the washed out background. In fact, almost every element in this photo leads your eye away from the only thing that is in focus.

I think this photo would be more interesting if the first post was slightly out of focus and the background was sharp. This way your eye would be drawn to the background first, and then you would see the sign and realize you are trespassing.

 

[CaptainNapalm]

I am a newbie so I won't give you technical feedback but will say that the image is very visually appealing to me. I like it.

 

[Juga]

I am a newbie so I won't give you technical feedback but will say that the image is very visually appealing to me. I like it.

Noobs must stick together...haha