Bowling ball

[vipgraphx]

I kinda agree with you. I may not be the best example but, I think when I first started off I had not concern about composition what so ever as my main focus was the processing. I think however through out all of that I kept hearing time and time again about composition and it got annoying BUT, I also think it has helped me along the way because now when I shoot I am planning by pictures better and trying to keep all that has said in the past. I take more time with my shots and I am not posting every shot I take anymore. Now I am trying to choose the ones that I think over all are my better ones. Still need work on composition and what I am going to do is something you suggested along time ago and take with me a white card board with a cut out so I can picture and see my frame before I shoot.


I agree that in the HDR forum processing is KEY but, all in all it is a complete package that makes the over all picture work.

 

[o hey tyler]

In the HDR forum I would ignore comments like poor composition.

Oh that's right. I forgot composition doesn't matter in HDR images.

Foolish me!

I dont think comments about composition are very helpful in an HDR forum when the OP needs to learn about HDR itself and not be given opinions of composition. If there is nothing else to pick on then go for composition. Thats just my opinion.

I think composition comes before learning to create HDRs. An HDR image with crappy composition is just a processed photo with crappy composition. To make a photograph aesthetically pleasing, composition is key. Processing plays second fiddle to the fundamentals of photography.

 

[Bynx]

Ya but I believe composition isnt something you can learn, but its inside us. Some have it some dont. You can give personal opinions about what you think looks good or how the photo would look better to you, or you can quote some rule. But thats all second place to the processing of the HDR image. This isnt the Composition forum is it? Yes its part and parcel of the whole image, but when the OP is so far off with knowledge about HDR its better to focus the comments about that. In my opinion.
Also no one picks up a camera and starts off shooting HDR. Composition, exposure, and the other aspects to a photo should be familiar before shooting HDR. Again, just my opinion.

 

[IByte]

It's Soblik... no, wait, he NEVER posted an image.

Thephotoguy's MO.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

Ya but I believe composition isnt something you can learn, but its inside us. Some have it some dont. You can give personal opinions about what you think looks good or how the photo would look better to you, or you can quote some rule. But thats all second place to the processing of the HDR image. This isnt the Composition forum is it? Yes its part and parcel of the whole image, but when the OP is so far off with knowledge about HDR its better to focus the comments about that. In my opinion.
Also no one picks up a camera and starts off shooting HDR. Composition, exposure, and the other aspects to a photo should be familiar before shooting HDR. Again, just my opinion.

I've never heard of anyone who can't learn to shoot better from a composition standpoint. Sure, it requires study of the field. Sure, it requires a basic understanding of visual elements and how they function in space. Sure, it can take years and years to get a good handle on it. But I've never heard anyone say it can't be learned.

I think one problem is this is a photography forum. Photographers don't see these pictures and say "oh it's an hdr pic in the hdr subforum, let's throw every rule of photography out the window and judge this pic and how well the spiders were placed in photomatix"

And they shouldn't think, because that's just ass backwards. These are still photos. Hdr is a tool to create and better a photo, not to to replace a photo.

 

[o hey tyler]

Ya but I believe composition isnt something you can learn, but its inside us. Some have it some dont. You can give personal opinions about what you think looks good or how the photo would look better to you, or you can quote some rule. But thats all second place to the processing of the HDR image. This isnt the Composition forum is it?

So if composition can't be learned, why do art schools not have a preliminary test where they say "Hey, prospective students. Take these objects and arrange them in a pleasing composition. If you can't do this, you'll never be able to."

If you're suggesting that HDR photography has no need for proper composition, or any variety of pleasing aesthetic elements, that's an extremely ignorant statement to make IMO. You can process any scene or image into being an HDR photograph, but without the fundamentals of photography (exposure, composition, general interest) it's just a bad photo with HDR processing.

Yes its part and parcel of the whole image, but when the OP is so far off with knowledge about HDR its better to focus the comments about that. In my opinion.

So your opinion is to disregard the fundamentals, and have them work on the unnecessary aspects (such as HDR)? Rather than starting with a strong composition, and increasing the detail and tonality via HDR?

Wow.

Also no one picks up a camera and starts off shooting HDR. Composition, exposure, and the other aspects to a photo should be familiar before shooting HDR. Again, just my opinion.

Yes, that's what I am saying. The fundamentals come first. So why did you contradict yourself?

You have to learn to walk before you can run. HDR (and other alternative processing methods) are running at full tilt.

 

[Bynx]

I didnt contradict myself. Im only saying the HDR forum isnt the place to concentrate on poor composition. It should be the place to help the OP make his HDR processing better not to teach him how to look through the viewfinder. I could be wrong, but I dont think Ive ever commented on someones composition in the HDR focus. To be honest I never pay any attention to composition. Im only looking at the processing.

 

[Trever1t]

I understand what you're saying Bynx, in the HDR section the critique is and should be directly addressed to the HDR process(ing) and composition is not the primary concern whereas in general, artistic merit is directly related to the composition and the artists selection and arrangement of subject matter.

 

[kharp]

Perhaps you were substituting "HDR" for "HDR photograph." It's common to see this kind of mistake as people like to use contractions.If this is the case, than you should have written: "it's not a good HDR photograph." While grammatically correct, it's still meaningless because "good" isn't defined.
Clear writing is vanishing from society at an alarming rate.

You meant "then", Professor.

 

[o hey tyler]

Perhaps you were substituting "HDR" for "HDR photograph." It's common to see this kind of mistake as people like to use contractions.If this is the case, than you should have written: "it's not a good HDR photograph." While grammatically correct, it's still meaningless because "good" isn't defined.
Clear writing is vanishing from society at an alarming rate.

You meant "then", Professor.

MEGA BURN.

 

[Bynx]

If you read this thread from the beginning you will see that there was only chatter about his composition and the placement of his bowling ball which for some reason some couldnt identify. It wasnt a good image and needed color correction and better HDR (tone mapping) in my opinion. Yet instead of addressing the HDR problems the focus was on the guys composition. Thats why I said the things about composition that I did. Of course if someone posts a good HDR image and you cant find fault with it then mention that its a good HDR but the composition needs fixing, in your opinion. In the light of the new day I hope this is clear.

 

[rokvi]

Its like flogging a mule thats dead, then turning on each other...

 

[HughGuessWho]

You have a valid point, Bynx, and I agree 95%. In his case, however, the first comment / critique given was from VIP and he commented directly to the processing. It was immediately after that critique that the OP started slamming VIP and o hey tyler. That is what brought out the big guns. Most of us have a lot to learn about HDR and you are one of the best to learn from, but if someone gives your honest critique on what I see as poor picture by any standard and you immediately start questioning their abailities and overall intelligence, you should expect a pretty harsh, no holds barred response.
Just my $0.02.
Now, lets all just get along and play together like big kids!

 

[o hey tyler]

In the light of the new day I hope this is clear.

No, it's not.

Fundamentals first. Processing second. Always. No matter what type of photography, no matter what the "heading" of the forum is.

If you only critique the processing, then of course it will be impossible for someone to learn composition like you said in your earlier post. If you critique both, the OP can go back and refer to it (assuming that they decide to re-read the thread). No, this isn't a "composition forum," but none of them are. Photography is an art that fundamentally relies on good composition for a piece of work to be accepted by the masses.

I just really simply do not agree with you. I think your logic is broken.

 

[EDL]

Something went horribly wrong in the HDR processing. The way it looks, it seems as if it was taken with a cellphone camera...an older one at that. Not particularly sharp, lacking detail and it looks like it's 16-bit color or something.