Bright Whites

[PJM]

I am looking for some critique/help in this post. I often find it difficult to get subjects that are bright white correct. So I decided to go out take some shots specifically to practice this.

The first shot here is the original. It was taken using spot metering with the spot directly on the swan. Although bright the histogram showed no evidence of clipping.

I then reduced the highlights to -50 in LR in order to try and get more detail in the feathers. This is where I thought it looked the best but I would like your opinions.

Lastly I reduced the highlights to -77. This seems too far, as it has turned to grey.

Your take on the original and processing?

 

[407370]

Hi PJM,

I then reduced the highlights to -50 in LR in order to try and get more detail in the feathers.

You are asking a lot if you want to see details in the feathers from a pic taken from this distance.

Although there is no clipping the swan is right on the edge. There is very little variance (i.e. details) between the pixels on the body of the swan so generating variance needs some extreme HDR type process.

Your pic looks fine.

I dont use Lightroom so cant comment on that.

CHEERS
JBO

 

[PJM]

Hi PJM,


You are asking a lot if you want to see details in the feathers from a pic taken from this distance.

Although there is no clipping the swan is right on the edge. There is very little variance (i.e. details) between the pixels on the body of the swan so generating variance needs some extreme HDR type process.

View attachment 269960
Your pic looks fine.

I dont use Lightroom so cant comment on that.

CHEERS
JBO

I have very little experience with HDR. And from what little I know I'm not sure how I would manage it with a moving target. Thanks for the comments.

 

[John 2]

It's the third one for me Pete. It easy to be seduced by bright highlights but I suspect that where there is texture, there will be some grey areas. The last one looks the most realistic to me. I tend to pull back highlights until they are no longer in my face - so to speak. As to detail in the feathers, I agree with @407370. It's asking too much at that distance however, if your lens has sufficient resolution, your best bet is to see if you can introduce some macro contrast whilst your image is still in RAW. But it's still a big ask.

 

[407370]

I have very little experience with HDR. And from what little I know I'm not sure how I would manage it with a moving target. Thanks for the comments.

HDR only needs 1 pic.
You can simulate HDR by creating 2 more images by dropping / raising brightness on the original image. You will end up with 3 images that will have the extended Dynamic Resolution. Experiment a bit with the extent of the brightness / darkness to what looks best from your workflow.

Example I did. 1 / 1a / 1b are the three images and the HDR is the final product. All JPG :

I use Luminar NEO which has the HDR function baked in.

Hope that helps.

CHEERS
JBO

 

[jeffashman]

Nice shot, and I agree with John. Whites are tough to work with, because each camera treats them differently. I think you had the right idea, though. One possible approach to compensating for the bright whites might be to increase the DOF, and perhaps use spot metering. If you are shooting in RAW, then PP will be easier since the software will be working with mathematical formulas instead of pixels.

 

[PJM]

It's the third one for me Pete. It easy to be seduced by bright highlights but I suspect that where there is texture, there will be some grey areas. The last one looks the most realistic to me. I tend to pull back highlights until they are no longer in my face - so to speak. As to detail in the feathers, I agree with @407370. It's asking too much at that distance however, if your lens has sufficient resolution, your best bet is to see if you can introduce some macro contrast whilst your image is still in RAW. But it's still a big ask.

Exactly I'm torn between the brightness and the detail. Perhaps another example of you can't have everything. I will keep your comments in mind as I continue to work this out. Thanks.

 

[PJM]

Nice shot, and I agree with John. Whites are tough to work with, because each camera treats them differently. I think you had the right idea, though. One possible approach to compensating for the bright whites might be to increase the DOF, and perhaps use spot metering. If you are shooting in RAW, then PP will be easier since the software will be working with mathematical formulas instead of pixels.

Thanks Jeff. I hadn't thought about DOF. I will experiment with that.

 

[wobe]

It's threads like this where I find I can really learn.

I've learnt that after reading the original post and then the replies the thoughts in my head were largely correct (always good to get validation your approach is correct!).

HDR only needs 1 pic.
You can simulate HDR by creating 2 more images by dropping / raising brightness on the original image. You will end up with 3 images that will have the extended Dynamic Resolution. Experiment a bit with the extent of the brightness / darkness to what looks best from your workflow.

However I did not think about simulating the HDR with copying existing photos with varying levels of exposure and using them to create the HDR image - many thanks @407370!

Regards the OP - I agree that No.3 is best, in this situation I would be trying to balance the Highlight and White sliders in LR together with the Tone Curve / Region highlights/light etc as best you can but will always be a challenge.

 

[407370]

However I did not think about simulating the HDR with copying existing photos with varying levels of exposure and using them to create the HDR image - many thanks @407370!

You are welcome

 

[PJM]

It's threads like this where I find I can really learn.

I've learnt that after reading the original post and then the replies the thoughts in my head were largely correct (always good to get validation your approach is correct!).

However I did not think about simulating the HDR with copying existing photos with varying levels of exposure and using them to create the HDR image - many thanks @407370!

Regards the OP - I agree that No.3 is best, in this situation I would be trying to balance the Highlight and White sliders in LR together with the Tone Curve / Region highlights/light etc as best you can but will always be a challenge.

Thanks for the suggestions, Wobe.

 

[zombiesniper]

Yes white can be quite an issue. Especially when the sun is out.
Ensuring your spot meter is on the subjects body is a key point to getting close to the right exposure to retain the detail. This can be difficult with moving birds.
I shoot manual with iso auto so my format may or may not work for you.

I was having difficulties with whites getting too close to being blown out so what I did was with a bird that was expected to remain in the same general location for a few minutes was to adjust my exposure compensation. Started at +_0 then down 1/3 stop, 1/2 stop 2/3 stop etc.
For my camera Canon 7DmkII it was 2/3 stop that gave me the sweet spot where in 90% of shooting scenarios would provide an excellent exposure.
I used the exposure compensation just like I would a micro focus adjustment.

Below is an example of what I get and some of the exif data posted below the image.


Male snowy by Trevor Baldwin, on Flickr

• ƒ/11.0
• 500.0 mm
• 1/1000
• 320
• Flash (off, did not fire)
• Exposure Bias - -2/3 EV
• Max Aperture Value - 4.0
• Metering Mode - Spot

 

[PJM]

Yes white can be quite an issue. Especially when the sun is out.
Ensuring your spot meter is on the subjects body is a key point to getting close to the right exposure to retain the detail. This can be difficult with moving birds.
I shoot manual with iso auto so my format may or may not work for you.

I was having difficulties with whites getting too close to being blown out so what I did was with a bird that was expected to remain in the same general location for a few minutes was to adjust my exposure compensation. Started at +_0 then down 1/3 stop, 1/2 stop 2/3 stop etc.
For my camera Canon 7DmkII it was 2/3 stop that gave me the sweet spot where in 90% of shooting scenarios would provide an excellent exposure.
I used the exposure compensation just like I would a micro focus adjustment.

Below is an example of what I get and some of the exif data posted below the image.


Male snowy by Trevor Baldwin, on Flickr

• ƒ/11.0
• 500.0 mm
• 1/1000
• 320
• Flash (off, did not fire)
• Exposure Bias - -2/3 EV
• Max Aperture Value - 4.0
• Metering Mode - Spot

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I especially appreciate the photo (and a darn fine photo it is). It helps give me some perspective on what others strive for.

I also shoot manual with auto or manual iso depending on the situation. I will spend more time experimenting with your technique and see how it goes.

Anxiously awaiting the Snowy owls to return to our area.