Canon 7D sees dead people.

[Overread19]

Sounds like the shutter is not up to the job of shooting 8FPS like the 1D, they should have kept it to 6FPS because you don't need 8FPS

since its image ghosting I was thinking it was more a problem either with the firmwire processing (at best) or (at worst) some problem with the sensor itself not being able to shoot that fast - and thus getting the ghosting of the previous image carrying over.

 

[inTempus]

Didn't Nikon have to recall one of their recent releases - or recall a significant number of them for repairs?

Yeah, the D5000 had not one but two recalls right after release. It seems that the race Nikon and Canon are in to get new products to market couple of months is causing them to get very sloppy in their development.

But that doesn't excuse Canon's sloppiness. I've also read about the 7D's AF problems.

It seems to me the 7D's new 19 point AF system wasn't fully tested... and smacks of the 1D3 debacle.

And you were moaning that the 1DMK4 didn't have similar focusing

I wasn't "moaning" about the 1D4 not having similar focusing. Why on earth would I want the 1D4 to have a 19 point system vs. a 45 point system?

You're confused.

I would have liked the 1D4 to have had the configurable LCD display of the 7D and the color aware metering. The 7D doesn't do color AF tracking like Nikon by the way.

 

[Rekd]

The camera''s widely touted 8 frames per second frame rate drops/slows down in low light conditions

The 50D I had for 2 weeks did that too. Not sure what the big deal is. :shrug:

 

[inTempus]

The camera''s widely touted 8 frames per second frame rate drops/slows down in low light conditions

The 50D I had for 2 weeks did that too. Not sure what the big deal is. :shrug:

Canon claimed the 40D could shoot 6.5fps. In reality it could only do a max of 6.3fps if the shutter speed was 1/4000 or faster. It never could hit 6.5fps. Anything slower and it was more like 5 to 6fps. I don't know if they fixed this issue with the 50D or not, but they did revise the specs to say it could only do 6.3fps.

 

[gsgary]

Sounds like the shutter is not up to the job of shooting 8FPS like the 1D, they should have kept it to 6FPS because you don't need 8FPS

since its image ghosting I was thinking it was more a problem either with the firmwire processing (at best) or (at worst) some problem with the sensor itself not being able to shoot that fast - and thus getting the ghosting of the previous image carrying over.

I would say it is shutter not shutting quick enough and maybe double exposing

 

[musicaleCA]

I would have liked the 1D4 to have had the configurable LCD display of the 7D and the color aware metering. The 7D doesn't do color AF tracking like Nikon by the way.

Yes it does, unless Canon's reps lied to my face about the cameras I was holding in my hands. The 7D's light meter and AF sensor processing are tied together.

Sounds like the shutter is not up to the job of shooting 8FPS like the 1D, they should have kept it to 6FPS because you don't need 8FPS

since its image ghosting I was thinking it was more a problem either with the firmwire processing (at best) or (at worst) some problem with the sensor itself not being able to shoot that fast - and thus getting the ghosting of the previous image carrying over.

I would say it is shutter not shutting quick enough and maybe double exposing

The 7D's shutter is the same shutter from the 1D series, with a few tweaks to make it better. You might want to revise your comments.

As for all these problems, I for one haven't experienced any of them. Not one. Just because things are widely publicized doesn't mean they're widespread.

 

[gsgary]

I would have liked the 1D4 to have had the configurable LCD display of the 7D and the color aware metering. The 7D doesn't do color AF tracking like Nikon by the way.

Yes it does, unless Canon's reps lied to my face about the cameras I was holding in my hands. The 7D's light meter and AF sensor processing are tied together.

since its image ghosting I was thinking it was more a problem either with the firmwire processing (at best) or (at worst) some problem with the sensor itself not being able to shoot that fast - and thus getting the ghosting of the previous image carrying over.

I would say it is shutter not shutting quick enough and maybe double exposing

The 7D's shutter is the same shutter from the 1D series, with a few tweaks to make it better. You might want to revise your comments.

As for all these problems, I for one haven't experienced any of them. Not one. Just because things are widely publicized doesn't mean they're widespread.

How can it be the same shutter it's bigger, faster, stronger

 

[MrLogic]

The 7D's shutter is the same shutter from the 1D series, with a few tweaks to make it better. You might want to revise your comments.

But... the 7D's shutter life is rated at 150,000 clicks, while the 1D III is rated at 300,000... correct? (Whatever that means) That's what Google tells me, anyway.

 

[musicaleCA]

*yawn* Guys, it's the same shutter. They took the shutter design from the 1D series and plopped it into the 7D. If you don't trust that I'm telling the truth than I suggest you talk to Canon directly, because that's what they told me.

 

[inTempus]

Yup, that's what I've read too. The 7D's shutter is basically the same as the 1D's.

 

[Derrel]

You know, there are very few "professional" reviews of the 7D out yet. I've been looking and looking,and one of the most distressing reviews was this one Canon EOS 7D Review Performance| NeoCamera.com

which says the metering is often quite erratic. I have also been reading the massive Fred Miranda 7D master thread, which has a number of people rabidly defending the 7D and also some people who are having difficulties and issues with the new viewfinder screen's inability to allow manual focus ascertainment with fast lenses like the 50-L,85-L, and 135-L, and in short, the inability to accurately gauge focus by "eye" with any lens over f/2.8 in aperture speed. There are also a significant number of professional bird/wildlife and sports/news guys who are not satisfied with the autofocusing system's results. And this odd new dual-green, "4-color" sensor array is causing massive problems with RAW conversion software, leading to strange noise that's being called the "maze effect".

I get accused of being a Nikon fanboy, but I also own three Canon d-slr's and three Canon L-glass lenses, plus four non-L Canon lenses, and two Sigmas for Canon, and have been just waiting and waiting for a revolutionary new camera before upgrading. I'm convinced there are some BAD 7D cameras out there, 'cause their owners have been sent back NEW cameras from Canon's Irvine, Calif. facility, while others have had their cameras adjusted. I've spent the better part of a few nights over the last week going through Fred Miranda and dPreview's forums dedicated to 7D issues, and it seems like there's a subset of people who are getting great results from the camera on simple, static AF shots, but there are people sending the cameras back for full refunds too. Also, a few experienced wireless flash users who are finding that bounced flash multi-flash setups are not being exposed correctly,and two of them have independently corroborated that their respective 7D's are not functioning as they should.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out if this is just what happens when a company introduces a "pro-style AF system" to a user base that has had a simple, 9-area diamond array--like Nikon did when the D200 and its 11-area AF was bumped up to a 51-point system in the D300 D3. I wonder to myself if the 7D is simply presenting a huge learning curve issue for the majority of people used to the 20-30-40-50D and 5D series 9-point diamond array AF system, OR if this system needs more work on it, or if it's simply a manufacturing issue with maybe some bad components? What freaks me out are the pro nature and wildlife guys who are getting lots of OOF shots,even though they are used to 1-series AF capabilities. The web has gotten to the point where I simply hardly trust glowing new-owner/new-user reviews,and there are so many people that buy a new camera and defend it that I don't trust the new 7D owners trying to shout down those that are comparing their OWN new 7D camera with their 5D or their 5D Mark II or their 1 D Mark II-n or 1D Mark III bodies.

The reason I don't trust glowing user reviews any more? I payed $5,000 for a Nikon D2x body based on early reviews that focused on how great the image quality was, and on how high the resolution was even better than the Canon 1D Mark II (16.7 MP) with the same lens, used on an adapter. Yeah. Up to ISO 320 or maybe 400. I told myself how great the camera was, and then I got the chance to shoot my first late afternoon-to-twilight baseball game. It was fine at ISO 320 and 400, but at 500, the images changed. I had bought the camera on May 3rd, and in the SPRING and SUMMER, in good,bright light, it looked superb at ISO 160 or 200 or 250 or 320 or 400. I was telling myself how great the camera was for several months, until an August evening-to-twilight game....wow...the camera's ISO 800 and Hi-1 images needed massive Noise Reduction. The vast majority of new-owner reviews had lead me to believe it was an amazing,breakthrough camera, but honestly, for the newspaper sports gigs I was shooting, I was p*$$3D'off I had sold my older D1h sports camera, which had far fewer but HUGE pixels, and better IQ under a set of conditions I was confronted with once spring and summer had turned to fall and then winter.

I live in a gray,rainy, cool part of the country. I saw some great 7D Texas bird pics shot last week--at EV values I will not see again here until next May or June...and I am not going to make the mistake of buying another camera until I am absolutely,positively *sure* all the bugs are worked out.
The 1D Mark III AF fiasco was the last straw; I am now doubting Canon's engineering direction and Quality Assurance. It's gotten to the point where the D90 has better IQ but slower AF and slower handling in all aspects than my 'speed camera' the D2x, which I think of as "the five thousand dollar mistake". After the D2x disappointment sunk in, I bought a Canon 5D after it had been on the market for like 2 years, and am **still** impressed with its image quality and shallow depth of field FF look. But you know, I'm tired of chasing megapixels, and am once-bitten, twice shy about buying a significantly "new" camera from Canon OR Nikon.

Last time I dropped major coin on a 'great new camera' it was the D2x. It was great shot in bright light,and the photogs who had been "seeded" the early pre-release camera shot it in California and Hawaii where it's EV 17, EV18 all the time. Right now here, it's dull and f/4 at 1/30 at ISO 400. I'm not interested in seeing shots of birds in Texas shot at ISO 3200 in full sunlight at f/4 at 1/5000 second..I want to see more night football and gray-day soccer, and on those two specific areas, I am reading about pro sports shooters complaining about the 7D's AF. I no longer trust early, amateur owner comments--I was fooled by them in 2005 and dropped 5k and regretted it as soon as summer turned to fall and the light levels dropped.

 

[inTempus]

I was all excited about the 7D and fought the urge to buy one to play with it when they first hit the streets. After a few weeks of reading similar reports, I'm not so sure the 7D doesn't have some pretty big issues as well. It seems to me the AF system isn't all that it was cut out to be... even reports I was reading the day the first owners got them on the Canon forums was not so impressive. They were reporting lots of missed focus shots...

I'm kind of worried about the 1D4... The way Canon is going as of late, there's is a good chance it will be FUBAR like the 1D3 was on its initial release. I keep telling myself "Canon learned from the 1D3 fiasco and won't do it again"...

Fortunately, if I'm an early adopter of the 1D4 and I determine it does suck, I can probably sell it pretty quickly for almost what I have in it. I hate having to think like that.

 

[MrLogic]

^ I wouldn't worry too much about the 1D IV at this point.


The 7D, though? Yikes:


"7D, 8FPS? only in good light!"

7D, 8FPS? only in good light! - FM Forums


"The results were exactly what others have said - frames/second dropped from eight to four in very low light conditions, even with manual exposure and manual focus. The 50D shooting under the same conditions did not show any drop in performance. So yea, the 7D is trying to do something "smart" even in full manual, and this gets tripped up under very low light conditions."

and:

"This pretty much explains why, other than not having to change anything and thus save product development money, Canon didn't add the 'great' new 7D metering system to the 1DIV. On a pro camera such a frame rate reduction would be intolerable.

In a way it also smacks of typical Canon tactics to slightly cripple a lower tier product. Though Canon would phrase it as addressing a specific market segment. The 7D gives you almost what the 1D series does, but with a few gotchas that on paper appear minor, but in practice can be significant. The fps reduction and skimpy buffer, for example. Chances are for any major sporting events, there will be enough light and the fps won't drop. But because the metering works with reflective light readings, if a given team wears very dark jerseys... you never know."

 

[musicaleCA]

Aw shucks. Guess I'll have to use some skill and time my shots in really low light until Canon fixes it. Darn. And I was so hoping I could just hold the shutter release and not have to care about timing at all.

 

[inTempus]

The 7D's shutter is the same shutter from the 1D series, with a few tweaks to make it better. You might want to revise your comments.

But... the 7D's shutter life is rated at 150,000 clicks, while the 1D III is rated at 300,000... correct? (Whatever that means) That's what Google tells me, anyway.

That's all marketing hooyah I believe. Some people have shutters go out at 80,000 clicks and others have had cameras well past 200k clicks and never had a problem (on bodies like the 40D). It's more the luck of the draw than anything IMHO.