Canon EOS 70D

photopro234 · Sep 2, 2013

I am interested in hearing performance reports on Canon EOS 70D. Is it everything that the company says it can do? I am going to use one to use for wedding photography.

bratkinson · Sep 3, 2013

It's probably a bit too soon to get 'real world' feedback about the 70D. It's been out there for what...2 weeks? Maybe 10,000 have them in their hands right now, and perhaps 10 of them regularly frequent this board. Give it some time. See what is posted about it perhaps mid-October or so both here and other boards.

As for wedding photography with a 70D, your biggest limitation is the lack of full frame. Although the 24-70 f2.8L ii is considered 'the gold standard' for wedding photography, on the crop body 70D, it has a field of view comparable to a 38-112 zoom. In many cases, too 'long' for many shots. I do a lot of indoor photography at church (no weddings!) and found I needed a 16-35 f2.8L to get 'wide enough' on my 60D, having (temporarily) both a 24-70 f2.8L and 24-104 f4L as well. Having moved to a 5D mark iii full-frame, my 16-35 spends most of its time in the bag. So if you go with the 70D, consider getting a 16-35 f2.8L for the wider shots.

iolair · Sep 3, 2013

I too am interested in seeing what the high ISO performance of the 70D will be like.

For weddings, using a crop body like the 70D, the 'go to' lens for weddings and events would probably be Canon's 17-55mm f/2.8 (however, being an EF-S lens, it would be useless if you ever upgraded fully to full-frame).

iolair · Sep 3, 2013

iolair said:
I too am interested in seeing what the high ISO performance of the 70D will be like.

Aha, my question has been answered: DxOMark - Canon EOS 70D vs 60D sensors: Incremental advance

Definitely better in low light than the 60D - way below the full-frame cameras though.

DxO mark's ISO performance scores:
60D: 813
70D: 926
6D: 2340
7D: 854

(and for comparison: Nikon's crop D7100 ISO score: 1256, and full-frame D600 ISO score: 2980. I also note with interest that Pentax's K-5 ii get's an ISO score of 1235, virtually the same as the Nikon - the Pentax is cheaper than the Canikon alternatives, AND weather-sealed).

--

Incidentally, for wedding photography, Canon's 5D mk III has a clear advantage over Canon's lowlier bodies: dual card slots - so if you get a corrupted or lost card, you don't lose half the photos from the wedding, as it can record to both at once.

Gavjenks · Sep 3, 2013

I too am interested in seeing what the high ISO performance of the 70D will be like.

All crop frames are way below the full frame cameras in high ISO performance. That's not something that's going to ever change.

Even if technology gets to the point where a new crop frame does better than some old dinosaur full frame, the new full frames will still blow all of them out of the water.

Nor was the 70D supposed to do any better in high ISOs than other Canon crop frames. The new sensor was designed for state of the art new technology in live view/video autofocus technology. Which probably isn't particularly relevant to most wedding photographers.

iolair · Sep 3, 2013

Gavjenks said:
I too am interested in seeing what the high ISO performance of the 70D will be like.

Click to expand...

All crop frames are way below the full frame cameras in high ISO performance. That's not something that's going to ever change.

True ... but with the price jump to full-frame, and a level of investment in EF-S lenses, there's also an incentive for many people to stick with crop.

Nor was the 70D supposed to do any better in high ISOs than other Canon crop frames. The new sensor was designed for state of the art new technology in live view/video autofocus technology. Which probably isn't particularly relevant to most wedding photographers.

In fact, Canon did claim that it would have significantly better performance at high ISO's. Unfortunately, "significantly" amounts to less than a third of a stop improvement. (Far less than the jump to full-frame, and certainly not enough to justify an upgrade from an earlier XXD body to the 70D on the grounds of improved low-light performance).

Gavjenks · Sep 3, 2013

Perhaps it is somewhat misleading to advertise that way.

But on the other hand, crop sensors these days are pretty close to being simply maxxed out in technology across companies. So a 1/3 of a stop might actually be pretty "significant" in actual practice for low light ISO. When you're at 90% of maximum theoretical performance or whatever, an improvement of a couple % could indeed be considered significant, depending on your perspective.

Compare to the Nikon D7100, for example, one of the highest performing crop sensors out there today. The D7100 has MAAAAYBE 1/6th of a stop of improvement in ISO noise over the 70D. Even less than the difference from the 60D to the 70D. It just doesn't seem to be possible to do much better than they're doing with crop sized sensors.

^ As you can see, they seem to be all hitting a ceiling pretty much in performance, with not really meaningful differences anymore. That said, the difference between the 70D and top performing D7100 is even less than the improvement from the 60D to the 70D. So in terms of crop sensor ISO noise performance, Canon has closed the majority of the gap between them and their competitor with this body.

Some might find that significant. Most probably shouldn't care at all, since they're all performing pretty equally in real life in terms of noise.

The only differences that are going to be really noticeable are up around insane ISOs (for a crop) like 12,800, etc.

Derrel · Sep 3, 2013

Sorry, but you're once again trying to demonstrate a falsehood, a canard, with a quick graph. Way to go Gavjenks. Sorry bud, but you're once agains spouting half-truths,at best.

The Nikon D7100 has just over two full EV MORE DYNAMIC RANGE at base ISO, in either screen, or print modes. Not "equal" as you stated, but "better".

$Canon 70D vs Nikon D7100 DR Dxo Mark.jpg

The D7100's sensor still maintains a full EV value MORE dynamic range at an ISO level between 1600 and 3200. In fact, all the way to the very-highest tested ISO level, the D7100 has about one full EV value MORE dynamic range than the 70D can eke out.

In color depth, the D7100 has a better sensor, with better, richer, deeper color. Across the entire ISO range. Not "equal" as you stated, but better.

$Canon 70D vs Nikon D7100 Color Dxo Mark.jpg

As one who is objective can see, the Nikon has the better color performance, across the ENTIRE ISO range. Again...not more or less "all equal".

Again Gavjenks, nice try on showing the signal-to-noise ratio graph, while conveniently neglecting to show the two things that ACTUALLY show up in real-world shooting: wider dynamic range, and deeper, richer, better color rendering. It's amusing to read about how, in your mind, the crop-sensor cameras are all virtually "equal".

JacaRanda · Sep 3, 2013

Here is just one review. I never feel like there is an agenda.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_70D/

Gavjenks · Sep 3, 2013

Sorry, but you're once again trying to demonstrate a falsehood, a canard, with a quick graph. Way to go Gavjenks. Sorry bud, but you're once agains spouting half-truths,at best.

Erm... I didn't post those graphs because they weren't relevant to the question that Iolair was asking and that I was clearly responding specifically to.

Contrary to popular belief, not every thread has to be a Nikon vs. Canon broad picture boxing match. I am using the 7100 purely as an informative comparison for the issue at hand, which was high ISO noise. Your dynamic range graph, by contrast, has nothing at all to do with the question that was asked (you didn't even include the 60D at all, which was the whole main point...)

It's amusing to read about how, in your mind, the crop-sensor cameras are all virtually "equal".

It's also correct to read about how they are virtually equal, in terms of ISO noise performance, which is what the conversation was about.

A look at actual photos yields the same conclusion:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/stu...x=-0.06596538853070921&y=-0.01054085955585649
Pretty much as identical as they get for noise.

iolair · Sep 4, 2013

Anyway, original poster - if you don't currently have a 70D, but feel you're committed to the Canon system, it would be worth your while to seriously consider a full-frame camera. The 6D or a used 5D mk II wouldn't cost *that* much more than the brand new 70D, and would give you *much* better performance in dark churches. If you could stretch to a 5D mk III, it offers the significant safety net of dual card slots so you can save to two cards at once.

The biggest improvements to the 70D would be of more use to D-SLR video shooters rather than to stills photographers.

Derrel: While your points about the other issues aspects of the sensor performance are true, I raised - and Gavjenks responded to - the particular point about low-light/high-ISO performance. My D-SLRs are purely Canon (three of them), and I and many others are fully aware that the Nikon sensors currently have a technical advantage over the Canon ones (and presumably the slightly larger size of the Nikon, Sony and Pentax sensors helps them achieve an advantage too). However, the sensor is NOT the whole question. There are also the questions of someone's current investment in a system (compatible lenses, flashes, etc.), the ease of use of a system, the potential hassle of learning the menu and controls of a new system, and the quality and number of lenses available. For those reasons, people committed to the Canon system - and perhaps with several crop-only lenses - will have a high interest in the advantage of the latest Canon crop sensor over their current ones.