Clients photos (new photographer - have questions)

[xSLZx]

Ok, i didn't search the forum (so please direct me if this has been discussed). I have a few of my photo's critiqued by one of my inspirations and he had a lot of good things to say, and basically told me to go ahead and just get out there and start my on-location photo shoots. He gave me a lot of self confidence that i had been lacking, and i believe i'm ready to get out there! I, of course, will be doing free sessions for a while, just to gain my confidence/knowledge/portfolio up. I understand this is a learning tool, and the more i do it, the better i become. My question is, once i do the session and edit the pictures, what then?? I mean, i can obviously put them on a disk... but what about hard copies? What do YOU do? How do your clients pick what they want in what size? Where do you order them? ...etc.

Also, logo's on the clients pics? yes? no?

I'd like to build a website... are there any good FREE servers? or do u suggest paying monthly for one?

and lastly, how do i build a portfolio exactly? what did you do? Are the pics printed and put into a binder? did you make them into a hard book? ....

Any help is appreciated, i'm not saying i'll be going out tomorrow to shoot, i'm just trying to understand everything, and get my business started. :thumbup:

 

[MissCream]

Tooo many questions so i'll only answer one lol. As far as a website goes I would go with wordpress.ORG , not.com.

 

[lafaphotography]

i would like to know the answer to those questions as well.

 

[Aayria]

Hi SLZz..these are all great questions, but there are also a handful more to consider before you start up a business. I'll start with the ones you asked, though.

First: What to do after editing pictures?

You have a huge array of options depending on your business model, and your target clients. Many people post early "previews" up on facebook with watermarks...but the danger here is that this lends to image theft and all sorts of issues with cropping out your watermark, people editing and re editing your pictures just because they can...and also some studies will suggest that your print sales plummet if you go this route. The reasoning is that people are more likely to buy prints if you meet them IN PERSON and reveal their very first look at their images at the same consultation. Some people will be content just seeing pictures on facebook, and print decent 5x7 to 8x10's of the facebook butchered images and never order a thing from you. (Facebook does butcher pictures badly in uploading.) You can use another online client album to previewing if you want to go this route...There are many available such as Smugmug, zenfolio, and others. These are not free, but they can be a great option that a lot of clients have come to expect from digital photographers.

Hard copies...your choice. When I was in buisiness, I put in my contract that I would retain all original files for x amount of time, after which all would be deleted from my hard drive. I would save all my final edited copies from each session in another folder, or on disc..but if you keep every single raw file you ever take indefinitely it reallyyy adds up on storage space! If you're shooting for paying clients, MAKE SURE that you have a hard copy and a back up copy of every file saved until the time you have agreed to delete the images at least...Or just wait for a hard drive crash and pooof all your pictures are gone ><

I personally do not release digital images to people.... When I was in cuisines, I would meet with them in person and preview the pictures on my computer. Then I would show them their options (sizes/prices/types etc..) of prints and other products, and I'd work out their order (with tax!). Keep in mind that about 40% of everything you make if you choose to go into business goes to taxes! I ordered through WHCC, but there are other great print labs out there too. Now that I'm not in business, I just post the edited pictures on my smug mug page and let friends/family order whatever prints they'd like on their own. I still don't give out digital files, except for the small watermarked versions on facebook.

There are a few decent free websites out there..but if you are serious about going into business I highly highly suggest paying for a professional quality one. Photobiz, creativemotion design and many others have great easy to use templates, with all the options you'd need. I just made a free website with wix.com..paid for my domain/host seperately, and I pay for my smug mug account. You can make decent websites with Wix.com if you keep them simple, but they are slowww to load..And you can also make reallyy reallyy horribly bad websites with wix.com.. Do so at your own risk.

Now..your potfolio.. This is the most important thing.. I suggest working and working and working on this until you are completely satisfied with every picture in it! Offer your services at a highly discount rate (and make sure people know this is a limited portfolio building offer) until you have a good array of pictures that demonstrate the areas you want to specialize in. IE..dont' offer wedding photography, but have zero wedding shots in your portfolio etc... You'll want to display your portfolio on your website mainly, and It's also a good idea to have an album made. You can do that with WHCC or any other printing lab, and put together some really nice templates to display your work. Another great idea I've seen done, is displaying your portfolio on an iPad.

Don't forget your liability insurance, gear insurance, tax information, business licensing, contracts, model releases, and most importantly don't go into business and start marketing yourself with pictures that down the road you will be embarrased to have your name on. Make sure you really know your stuff, and that you have confidence that you can produce professional, consistent results for your clients every time.

 

[David-Wayne]

Prophoto.com has pretty sweet templates for wordpress. I use it for my site http://www.islandcreekphotography.com I've been pretty happy with it. Use a logo on the client's photos you post on facebook since photos there get jacked a lot, even by other "photographers" for their own portfolio. Don't put logos on their digital negatives or any prints, that super lame Olan Mills 1980's crap . Plenty of pro print shops to choose from, DONT EVER EVER use walmart or Walgreens. They auto adjust photos and will change your finished product.

 

[Kerbouchard]

Sounds like your mentor hasn't really prepared you much...

For pics of clients, I'm not sure how you should handle a free shoot. Heck, I'm not even sure how you do a free shoot. The prints cost you money. The batteries cost you money. The time costs you money. The wear and tear on your gear costs you money. The gas costs your money. Insurance costs you money. Now, if you mean how do you go about providing prints for a shoot that you are paying them to shoot, well, that depends on you. I guess you can just order prints out of your own pocket and give them to your clients. Mpix and collages do good work.

For your portfolio, since you are, hopefully, growing as an artist, I would not do a hard copy. Do a binder so it won't cost you much to keep it updated with your best stuff.

Logos on your clients pics? It depends on your clients. I know some photographers who give free prints of babies to doctors to put in their sonogram room. I imagine having a logo on those help. If your client is going to put it in a frame in their living room, not so much.

 

[xSLZx]

Thank you everyone. You have been a big help. I will check out all things suggested.

(Whoever said about my 'mentor' not helping much, he's not my mentor, but just a photographer i've looked up to since i started getting into photography. I do not know him. He picked me at random to critique a few photo's..we were kinda on a time limit).

Anyway, thanks again everyone.

 

[KmH]

You should strive to present a consistantly professional demeanor.

One way to do that with written communications is to always make the appropriate capital letters and punctuation, even in online discussion forums.

For starting a retail photography business, having basic business knowledge and skill is as important, if not more important, than having photography skills.

You need to have some knowledge of marketing, promotion, salesmanship, customer relations, accounting, state and federal business tax requirements, state sales tax requirements, local business registration/licensing requirements, etc.

Businesses don't start by giving away their time and product. A better tactic is to show clients a price list that has prices between the middle and the low range being charged in your area, but you market and promote an "Introductory Discount". You have to make the discount attractive so it needs to be 25% or more.

If your pricing doesn't pay your non-reimbursed expenses plus a profit, the business will not be making money. In that situation, unless the business is supported by other income, it will fail. In fact, the #1 reason new retail photography businesses fail is because they don't make enough money. The #1 reason they don't make enough money is because the business owners lacks business acumen.

Even if you decide to shoot for free, you still need a range of legal documents: a contract, model release, use license, and I highly recommend having liability insurance in case a non-paying client gets hurt during a shoot.

 

[xSLZx]

Thanks Keith. I will definitely have the appropriate documents/forms for them to sign...that wasn't my issue. I was more so concerned with how to get everything started up.. more so with the website and where to order prints from...etc. I am actually in school for business & photography. :thumbup: I'm almost done the photography part, and will be soon getting into the business part. I will probably learn a great deal with the business aspect, which is great. Look forward to it.

By me starting out shooting for free, or for very very little, i feel, is the best way to go. Maybe by the 3rd client, i'll up my prices. I'm not doing this full time or anything, it will mostly be a hobby...possibly weekend shoots (atleast that's my plan for now), maybe down the road i'll want to do this full time as a living. I'm a stay at home mom, husband is Army and right now, i'm seeing lots of "photographers", who are indeed editing pictures with picnik and elements and what not, and getting business! I'm quite shocked and realized, i could be getting paid doing what i love, and i feel like i'm essentially a lot better than what i'm seeing around. We'll see how it goes. If it's one thing i learned from photographers... it's to just get out there and do it. Stop listening to that negative voice in your head, and just do it.

 

[subscuck]

If you shoot for free, how do you handle those "customers", or people they refer to you, if they come to you after you start charging for your services? If they got the milk free the first time, they aren't going to want to buy the cow the second time around. Just something to ponder. Keith's suggestion about an "introductory offer" is probably the way to go.

 

[xSLZx]

Oh, i would be telling them i'm building my portfolio and i'm looking to do a 30 min session. I'd probably only offer a few pics on a disk. Anything else they can pay for if they'd like more. Like i said, i'm only offering Free so that i can get some practice in. Maybe after the 3rd photo shoot, i will charge normal price. I don't believe this is un-heard of? I've done a lot of reading, and have been on a few different forums, and i see suggestions of offering free sessions or super cheap when you're just starting out...by explaining you're building your portfolio.

 

[mybelle]

I'm by no means a professional but have read that you do not want to start your prices out super low because a.) you will piss off those clients who got the low price and then you up it and b.) because you lower the value of photographers' work in your area. Not just the value of your pics, but of everyone's. Which will make the point of raising your prices once you "build your portfolio" moot because you've lowered the market value.

What was suggested where I read this (sorry, I can't remember where and I'm on my phone) was that you present your prices as a limited time offer with a fixed ending date, like for your first year, six months, first 15 clients, whatever. Then when you raise your prices your clients and referrals aren't shocked--they were given notice--and you haven't brought the market down because they know the true value of your work and lucked out by getting a great deal.

Made sense to me. Am I off here, guys?

 

[xSLZx]

Well, this thread has definitely made me re-think it for sure. I'd like to hear what other people did with their very first photo shoots, when trying to build your portfolio, and learning trial and error. I think maybe after the first 2 or 3 times i book, i'll feel more confident (with the way things work). My first few sessions will most likely be of friends/family... ya know? People that know i'm just starting out. I mean, i've been doing photography with my own family, but not anyone else.

 

[lafaphotography]

I guess what i would recommend is go out and shoot as much as you can. Take pictures of your friends, their kids, ask them to do a family shoot so you can test out your skills.... after you have done that then ask if they would mind being part of your photography portfolio. I am on the same boat as you, and am wanting to eventually start my own business and i want to make sure that i do it right the first time.


example: I have some friends that got engaged and wanted some nice pictures, they know that i am somewhat good with the camera. So i asked them one day if i could take their engagement pictures and if they would mind if i used a few as a portfolio. They did not mind that at all, we went out and i gave them a copy of the edited images... wasnt too much of a big deal for me as i have a full time job and dont mind sitting in front of the computer editing pics i take. so that worked out great...
Shauna's and Ron's Engagement pics - a set on Flickr
example: friends always wants pictures of their cars..... and im very active on the automotive community here, so everytime i go out for pictures, we end up taking tons of pics and they dont mind it if i put my name on them and edit them...


so those are 2 things that i have done.... once again they were both free and even tho i feel that i might be able to charge people for my services, i wont do it yet until i have established a business name with a tax id number and insurance... i have done my share of research and am just sharing the route that i am taking....


hope that helps

 

[KmH]

A portfolio showcases your best images. Quality is much more important than quantity.

In order to use images made under controlled conditions that have people in them for self-promotion and self-publishing on a web site you use to advertise your service, you usually need permission from those people, in writing and kept on file, to do so. That is what a model release is for. Any person whose photo you use that you have not gotten written permission from can cause you legal problems.

A portfolio is never static and gets updated several times a year.

In other words, portfolio building never stops.