commander mode annoyance

KmH · Mar 16, 2011

barleymalt said:
The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.

No, that is not what the SG-31R was designed for. The SG-31R was designed specifically to be used with CLS and Nikons R1 Closeup Speedlight System.

Good luck!

Garbz · Mar 16, 2011

Turn off your flash completely, and play with the camera settings until such a time where your internal flash fires, but you don't see anything in the picture. The exposure should be completely black unless you're photographing a reflective subject or are using silly high ISOs and low apertures.

whiplash23 · Mar 16, 2011

The Nikon manuals do a poor job of describing how to do commander mode. I have a D90 and use 2 SB-600s in commander mode frequently so I'll try to help. One of two things is going on here:
1) Your camera and/or flash is not functioning properly and needs to be sent back for warranty service.
2) You don't have something set quite right.

While what you describe sounds correct, I still suspect #2 is more likely given how convoluted the instructions are. First, know that every setting you change in commander mode must be confirmed before exiting the menu screen, or it will revert to the last known setting. I boof flash power settings this way all of the time.

You want the on camera flash set to -- as you say you have, but make sure you confirm this choice with the center button (circle in the middle of the 4-way toggle). Then you want to set the power of the SB-600 in group A. I typically use manual as my flash isn't always the same distance from the camera as the subject.

On the SB-600, you have to hold down the left and bottom buttons to get it into commander mode, the turn the mode ON. It should display the group and channel number, which need to match your camera settings.

If you have done all of the above, I suggest calling Nikon customer service and having one of them walk you through the procedure. If you still can't get it, send 'em in for service!

kundalini · Mar 16, 2011

whiplash23 said:
On the SB-600, you have to hold down the left (zoom) and bottom button (minus) to get it into [commander mode] the flash custom settings menu, then turn the mode ON for wireless remote operations. It should display the group and channel number, which need to match your camera settings.

The bolded may be the key here. The red is my edit. To have the SB600 off camera, the squiggly line needs to read ON. I haven't used CLS for a while, but it worked like a charm for me tonight. See page 52 (#1) of your flash manual.

Garbz · Mar 17, 2011

Quite possibly. Though my experience (accidental) with CLS is that if the flashes are either off, or not set to CLS remote, or set to the wrong channel, AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. I wonder this has changed on the D90 from earlier models so the internal files if no slave is detected...

kundalini · Mar 17, 2011

Garbz said:
....... AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. ...

Nearly. The exception is with reflective surfaces. There is some residual light that will be seen.

Backlit by my monitor. Shutter speed 1/250s, aperture f/8.

No Flash

Built-in set to (--)

TTL

Garbz · Mar 18, 2011

kundalini said:
Garbz said:

....... AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. ...

Click to expand...

Nearly. The exception is with reflective surfaces. There is some residual light that will be seen.

[/QUOTE]

Dammit I've said that 3 times now, and the one time I leave it off you call me out

Stradawhovious · Mar 18, 2011

My issue with the CLS isn't in setting the popup to "--" or setting the squiggly line to "on"

I't in remembering to se the SB-600 and the camera to the same channel. The SB-600 generally defaults to channel 3, and the camera to channel 1. I don't recall EVER setting up the CLS and remembering to set both to the same channel. It usually takes a cople of shots with me saying (to myself of course) "Why the hell isn't this thing working?!?!?" or something to that extent.

All things considered, if your camera works, and the SB-600 works, and there isn't a considerable amount of ambient light overpowering your popup flash, it's more than likely operator error. When everything is set up so the flash unit and camera can communicate with each other, it will work, and work well.

Good luck!

Garbz · Mar 19, 2011

Doesn't the camera generally remember the last settings used? The D200 does. If so set the camera to channel 3

DirtyDFeckers · Mar 19, 2011

barleymalt said:
I know how to make a setting in a menu. I've googled it and there are many other nikon users who have the same problem. What other setting could it be other than setting the popup flash to -- mode?

The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.

If you set your pop up flash to M instead of --, it will allow you to control the output of the popup. I was able to turn mine down to 1/128th of full power, which at that point, doesn't contribute to the light in the image.

Garbz · Mar 20, 2011

As opposed to not firing at all how it should be? Just incase anyone is unclear here is how CLS is supposed to work.

This sequence of events assumes the internal flash is set to "--", and Group A is set to TTL.

1. Shutter is pressed
2. Aperture shuts
3. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A is set to TTL and nothing else.
4. Camera's TTL meter is now on.
5. Group A fires a preflash.
6. Camera processes this information to determine the total output required for each Group.
7. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A should fire at a the calculated power level after a specific delay.
8. Mirror flips up and shutter opens.
9. Group A fires, Onboard flash does not.
10. Shutter closes, mirror flips down and you have a preview.

The correct operation of CLS where you don't want the onboard to contribute is to set it to "--" and not M at 1/128th. If you need to set it to 1/128th to get this to work then something is wrong, either a setting, or a bug in the firmware.

DirtyDFeckers · Mar 20, 2011

Garbz said:
As opposed to not firing at all how it should be? Just incase anyone is unclear here is how CLS is supposed to work.

This sequence of events assumes the internal flash is set to "--", and Group A is set to TTL.

1. Shutter is pressed
2. Aperture shuts
3. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A is set to TTL and nothing else.
4. Camera's TTL meter is now on.
5. Group A fires a preflash.
6. Camera processes this information to determine the total output required for each Group.
7. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A should fire at a the calculated power level after a specific delay.
8. Mirror flips up and shutter opens.
9. Group A fires, Onboard flash does not.
10. Shutter closes, mirror flips down and you have a preview.

The correct operation of CLS where you don't want the onboard to contribute is to set it to "--" and not M at 1/128th. If you need to set it to 1/128th to get this to work then something is wrong, either a setting, or a bug in the firmware.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the information.

CNCO · Apr 11, 2011

i have a d80 and i am running into the same problems as well. i thought it would be easy but the on camera flash is very strong and it does dominate the remote. yes i have the settings as described.