Considering a new build for a photo editing only PC.

[Philmar]

Really what I need to decide is WHAT motherboard to buy. I've been happy with ASUS over the years but find they are overpriced compared to the other 3....with ASUS it is between ProArt, TUF and Prime. The Strix was the one I first looked at mobos a year ago - but the price of Strix board increased a lot between the Z690 and Z790 variants. ProArt has too many expensive features like thunderbolt, wifi and 10 gb that I w/b foolish to pay for. Strix was well placed under the Z690 world but now they are expensive.
I have also been looking at the MSI Carbon and Tomahawk, ASRock SteelLegend and Livemixer (GODawful purple) and some of the Gigabyte bds - AERO G and AORUS Master. What I like about ASUS was their auto-overclock in the BIOS. Not the best OC but one that was safe and stable and didn't require me to learn about voltage and multipliers....Gigabyte has something similar but I don't think MSI or ASRock do.

Then I read tons of reviews and "Best Z790 mobo' or "Best mobo for i7 13700K' articles and pour over benchmark graphs where the performance differential is in single digit percentages. Youtube seems to be a wasteland of good info there. Trite unboxing vids.

It's good to be recently retired and have nothing better to do in the throes of a Canadian winter. If my pc had just died and I needed a new one ASAP then I think I'd be going crazy.

 

[wobe]

I think you are doing the right thing if you concentrate on what specific items you need from the motherboard - Number and type of sockets etc. The performance difference between low end, mid and high end motherboards is miniscule, same for DDR4 vs DDR5 in real world use, though it would be more future proof to get the DDR5 option if you can at a reasonable price of course.

In my opinion spend the money on the CPU, GPU and fast storage (if you are not carrying that over from your current PC) - these are the only items that will make a real difference. For the motherboard you should just make sure it offers the connectivity, ports, functions you are after - any one from a trusted brand that does will do - Whilst I have had to send motherboards back which were faulty from new I have never had one fail in use.

I believe all (?) motherboards have the easy overclocking option, usually just a 'Eco - Standard - Performance' switch in the BIOS, no other settings knowledge required but have not tinkered with that for many years - older and less risk prone now.

 

[Rickbb]

I think you should work it backwards. Read up on the specs for the software you want to use to see what hardware would be best for it. No point in spending a ton of money on something the software won’t use or even see. Remember hardware is a commodity now, it will be obsolete in 2 years or less.

I’ve built thousands of PC’s in the past 20 years and can’t tell you how many times the software dev demanded a state of the art i7 12 core, 16gig ram and a 1050ti gpu as a min platform just to run his software. And after getting them built and loading the software, I ran a perf mon suite only to discover the software was only using 6 gig ram, just 1 cpu core out of 12 and not using the add on gpu at all.

We now don’t even listen to the dev guy, we run i5 with 8 gig and stock mobos with the onboard graphics. Runs perfect, no issues and costs half of what the dev spec’ed.

Edit to add;

This for a custom written software package that controls 2 machines simultaneously with a live 3d video of the operation overlayed on an animation.

 

[AlanKlein]

I think you should work it backwards. Read up on the specs for the software you want to use to see what hardware would be best for it. No point in spending a ton of money on something the software won’t use or even see. Remember hardware is a commodity now, it will be obsolete in 2 years or less.

I’ve built thousands of PC’s in the past 20 years and can’t tell you how many times the software dev demanded a state of the art i7 12 core, 16gig ram and a 1050ti gpu as a min platform just to run his software. And after getting them built and loading the software, I ran a perf mon suite only to discover the software was only using 6 gig ram, just 1 cpu core out of 12 and not using the add on gpu at all.

We now don’t even listen to the dev guy, we run i5 with 8 gig and stock mobos with the onboard graphics. Runs perfect, no issues and costs half of what the dev spec’ed.

Edit to add;

This for a custom written software package that controls 2 machines simultaneously with a live 3d video of the operation overlayed on an animation.

What do you mean that hardware will be obsolete in two years? If it's still doing its job, isn't that what counts? Plus, wouldn't you want to buy a little more hardware for any new software that you add later on that might need more power or storage or memory? That's what I do. Of course, I'm only buying one machine, not a hundred. So, the few hundred extra I might pay, is a one-shot deal.

 

[ac12]

What do you mean that hardware will be obsolete in two years? If it's still doing its job, isn't that what counts? Plus, wouldn't you want to buy a little more hardware for any new software that you add later on that might need more power or storage or memory? That's what I do. Of course, I'm only buying one machine, not a hundred. So, the few hundred extra I might pay, is a one-shot deal.

Agree
And the problem is, we don't have a crystal ball.

- GPU. When I built my PC, nothing that I used needed a graphics processor, so I did not get one.
Today, to even install some of the AI photo editors, you have to have a graphics processor. And the min specs for the AI editors today is greater than it was a couple years ago. So if you got a min spec GPU a couple years ago, it may not run todays AI editors.
- RAM. I started with 8GB of RAM, today I am maxed out at 32GB.
- HD. As your camera sensor capacity increases, so does your need for storage. I went from 1TB, to 2TB and am currently using half of an 8TB drive for photos, and I've had to archive off LOTS of pictures to have space for this years pictures. If I upgraded to a Nikon Z-7, my storage requirement would more than double.

The longer we keep our computers, the more we have to guess the future.
- Maybe in a couple years, the new AI editors may require a new function in the GPU, and the current GPUs won't work.
- Will Windows 13 require 20GB of RAM just for itself? So I would need 128GB of RAM?
- Will I need a 50TB data drive, for my pictures from my 200MP camera?

BTW, for my personal computers, I tend to run them a LONG LONG time.
If the software runs fine, then there is no need to upgrade the HW.

 

[Philmar]

I think you should work it backwards. Read up on the specs for the software you want to use to see what hardware would be best for it. No point in spending a ton of money on something the software won’t use or even see. Remember hardware is a commodity now, it will be obsolete in 2 years or less.

I’ve built thousands of PC’s in the past 20 years and can’t tell you how many times the software dev demanded a state of the art i7 12 core, 16gig ram and a 1050ti gpu as a min platform just to run his software. And after getting them built and loading the software, I ran a perf mon suite only to discover the software was only using 6 gig ram, just 1 cpu core out of 12 and not using the add on gpu at all.

We now don’t even listen to the dev guy, we run i5 with 8 gig and stock mobos with the onboard graphics. Runs perfect, no issues and costs half of what the dev spec’ed.

Edit to add;

This for a custom written software package that controls 2 machines simultaneously with a live 3d video of the operation overlayed on an animation.

I only do photo-editing with LR and PS - use the Topaz Suite ONLY when I am making prints. I might use Topaz more frequently once I have a new rig because my 3rd gen build struggles mightily with it. To that end I realise I will need a much better GPU.
I believe an i5 is more than enough but because I can afford it I will go with the i7 13700 because it has quite good single core performance and LR and PS are still currently reliant on one core.
Even when I look at my motherboard reviews I pay attention most to the Cinebench R23 single core scores. Aorus Elite does very well with the 13 gens in single core performance at stock and not so well when OC'ed. Another high performer is the ASUS Strix which is more expensive.
I'm thinking I MIGHT one day have a use for thunderbolt - maybe the external storage prices will drop.

Do they have thunderbolt SD card readers? I'm using a Lexar USB 2 reader currently.

What I have been struggling with is how some Z790 boards offering gen 5 on the M.2 slot will have to cut the GPU to x8. This is all abstract numbers to me at this point in my 'education'. So are we to leave THAT M2 slot empty lest we cripple the GPU?

 

[Rickbb]

In this case I’d put the money on the gpu and leave the m2 slot empty, and max out the ram. In my experience more ram always seems to help speed up a system. It’s the best bang for the buck IMHO.

I’d do the same on the gpu, max out the ram if you are really going to use an app that will take advantage of it. You can drop down a model or two if you can get it with more ram than a new top of the line card for the same money.

Edit to add;

I’d stay with the x16 gpu, wider bandwidth will push more data.

 

[Rickbb]

What do you mean that hardware will be obsolete in two years? If it's still doing its job, isn't that what counts? Plus, wouldn't you want to buy a little more hardware for any new software that you add later on that might need more power or storage or memory? That's what I do. Of course, I'm only buying one machine, not a hundred. So, the few hundred extra I might pay, is a one-shot deal.

I meant compared to what will be on the market in two years.

Guess I’m just jaded, building them all the time makes you less enamored with tying to tweak the last performance bit out of them.

 

[Philmar]

In this case I’d put the money on the gpu and leave the m2 slot empty, and max out the ram. In my experience more ram always seems to help speed up a system. It’s the best bang for the buck IMHO.

I’d do the same on the gpu, max out the ram if you are really going to use an app that will take advantage of it. You can drop down a model or two if you can get it with more ram than a new top of the line card for the same money.

Edit to add;

I’d stay with the x16 gpu, wider bandwidth will push more data.

I've had 32 gbs of RAM since my last build 11 years ago....probably the reason I haven't had the need to upgrade.
Some online mobo reviewers/testers say the GPU performance is not much effected by moving down to 8 lanes...and I doubt I will need to use the GPU much with photo editing (NO video or gaming). Can always swap the components around later to see how productivity is effected.

 

[AlanKlein]

I use Adobe Premiere Elements video and Lightroom purchased version. I've never seen memory use beyond 12GB during operation with both programs operating at same time. I also process 500MB film scans and 4K video.

I had been running 24GB and 4th Gen Intel Core i7-4770 processor (8M Cache, up to 3.9 GHz) on my old machine from 2014 and just replaced it with a 32GB machine with 1TB SSB where all my programs go and keep all photos and videos are stored on the 1 tb HD. (I had 256 SSD in the old machine). The new machine runs a 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900 processor (8-Core, 16M Cache, 2.5GHz to 5.2GHz). Both desktops are from Dell.

 

[Philmar]

Thanks everyone for all of your help...I asked a lot of questions....a few dumb ones in hindsight. But I feel I have arrived at a build.

I couldn't stomach the higher ASUS prices though every time I looked at the Strix I felt at home. The bios, the look of the board, their bloatware was like family but I decided since I won't be overclocking this CPU that I can get almost as good performance with a much cheaper mobo. I tend to not want to cheap out on the mobo but the sticker shock of the other components made me do it. I decided against an upper-tier overclocking mobo because it seems the 13 Gen Intel CPUs are already OC'ed sufficiently with their burst modes which is a change from my last 3rd gen build.

I settled on the 6400-CL32 G.Skill Ripjaws because I feel it will be accepted easily by my XMP enabled mobo and that any higher speed RAM would only give small incremental performance improvement...and they don't have RGB and a low profile which is important if I air cool. 32 gb will NOT be enough one day - especially of I get a larger megapixel camera 5 years from now. But I can add RAM later when DDR5 is cheaper.

CPU cooler: I may go with Noctua if it fits however I've seen rave reviews with the Thermalight. My PC usage doesn't tax the CPU for extended periods so I don't think I should be too concerned about CPU throttling. I don't game or process video.

My thinking on the SSDs is that my OS and programs should go on the best fast SSD (and it should be on the CPU connected slot). With the 2nd SSD I reasoned that 3rd gen SSD is imperceptibly slower but cheaper. It is never the bottleneck so this is a good spot to shave off money.

GPU: My thoughts are I may build it with my current Radeon RX 460 and see how it performs. If I need the increased GPU power I can add a new GPU. I just added the Sapphire to the list as a place holder. My usage with LR does not hold me back. I have GPU acceleration turned off and I am able to use the local adjustment tools without delay. A GPU would improve the export time...It takes 15 seconds to export a photo. I'll see how must faster it gets with the better CPU. I may not need to spend CDN$600 to shave a few seconds off of the export time. My time isn't THAT valuable now that I'm retired -LOL. But it is a decision I can make once I see how my new build functions.

Power supply - I know I need to think more about that as it is a crucial part .

So here is what I've designed so far. Any further words of advice or warnings would be appreciated. Thanks for all of your great help!!

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/philmar/saved/4Rxg3C

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP33 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Video Card: Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000x (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

....plus some internal fans for air flow

 

[AlanKlein]

What's the price? Also, the link is private and won't show anything.

 

[Philmar]

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XwYFjZ

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($392.94 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($259.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory ($142.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP33 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000x (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($189.95 @ Amazon)
Total: $1390.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-22 15:20 EDT-0400

 

[Philmar]

for some reason pcpartpicker didn't price the CPU cooler so probably need to add another $70....unless I determine I can fit a slightly more expensive Noctua (better safe than sorry)

 

[Philmar]

Guess I didn't save changes to pcpartpicker properly. Now I have...cost keeps rising....
PCPartPicker Part List: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/sgR2PX

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($548.50 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($99.98 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($339.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory ($197.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP33 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($63.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($144.94 @ shopRBC)
Video Card: Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card ($352.50 @ Vuugo)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.50 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000x (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($252.22 @ iSanek)
Total: $2129.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-24 15:47 EDT-0400