Considering a switch from Full frame DSLR to mirrorless, have a few questions

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Cameras' started by CaptainNapalm, May 25, 2014.

  1. rexbobcat

    rexbobcat Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    My biggest concern would be autofocus speed. Even though many mirrorless cameras now have phase autofocus in the form of a hybrid system, they still seem a bit slower than DSLRs with dedicated phase-detect autofocus. If you're in decent light it's generally fine, but in low light and in situations where contrast is limited (smoke, fog, haze, shadowed areas) mirrorless cameras can struggle a bit.

    Other than that, they're light, have great sensors for the most part, and can easily be stored. Plus, lenses focal lengths/apertures are often cheaper for mirrorless systems.

    I'm wanting to get the Fuji XE-2 or X-Pro 2 (when it's released) just because the ease-of-use to quality factor is so incredible.


     
  2. Mirrorless Journey

    Mirrorless Journey TPF Noob!

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    Well, the AF on static subject is faster on micro 4/3 than it was on my 5D Mark II and it is always spot-on. You can't have back or front focus problems. The GH4 is speced at -4EV for AF which is excellent. I was really surprise by it's performances on C-AF recently when I photograph my daughter's cross-country team in action. The tracking AF is not that good but I didn't have it on the 5DII anyway. The C-AF on the 5DII was really bad. With the 70-200mm f/2,8, It was not able to C-AF on her consistently when she was playing soccer.

    The AF is still a bit faster on micro 4/3 than on the Fuji but it's getting closer (with the XT-1) and we can hope the X-Pro2 will be even better.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  3. goodguy

    goodguy Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I just moved from DX to FX so I am with you on the full frame band wagon.
    The thing is that what really is big is the lenses, not so much the body, if you want good fast glass with full frame they will be BIG!
    If you want smaller system then you will need to go to micro 4/3, great systems but in low light they will not hold a candle with a full frame.
    I dont see myself moving away from DLSR for now but I am considering adding the Nikon 1, if is tiny and in good lighting conditionds is fantastic and if I want I can mount the F lenses (with adaptor) on it and get 2.7 magnification on it.
    So I can enjoy both worlds.
     
  4. Mirrorless Journey

    Mirrorless Journey TPF Noob!

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    You would be surprised about the high ISO performance of the last micro 4/3 cameras. This is a shot at 5000 ISO (No noise reduction applied). Sure, this is not the ISO performances of the new D750 but it is as good or even better than what my 5D Mark II was outputting. This was taken with the Panasonic GH4.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Since you mentioned three specific cameras, I figured I would enter them into the DxO Mark comparison page and generate some actual test result numbers.

    Nikon D750 versus Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 versus Canon EOS 5D Mark II - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

    Nikon D750
    Overall, 93; Color Depth 24.8 bits;Dynamic Range 14.5 EV, Low Light ISO 2956.

    Canon 5D Mark II
    Overall, 79; Color Depth 23.7 bits;Dynamic Range 11.9 EV, Low Light ISO 1815.

    Panasonic Lumix GH4
    Overall, 74; Color Depth 23.2 bits;Dynamic Range 12.8 EV, Low Light ISO 791.
     
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  6. Mirrorless Journey

    Mirrorless Journey TPF Noob!

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    I never relied on DxOMark. I prefer to go shoot with the camera and look at what I get in different places/times/lighting conditions and make up my mind with the results instead of shooting a piece of paper in a controlled environment. Real life shooting >>>>>> DxOMark in my book. Sorry.
     
  7. goodguy

    goodguy Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    There is no doubt micro 4/3 cameras are very capable cameras, I saw pictures taken with them in different ISO settings and was very impressed.
    If somebody wants to use micro 4/3 then that perfectly fine but no matter how you look at it they will not work as well as full frame in low light and we are talking about a big advantage to full frame.
    I just upgraded from a VERY capable crop sensor camera to the D750 and the difference is nothing short of amazing.
    If for a micro 4/3 user the camera fulfill all his/her needs then that's perfect, for me today I can tell you full frame is a minimum I don't see going down from any time soon.
    Low light performance is something which for me is a must, don't want to make a compromise about it.
    I read a small reply from a GH4 user and while he stated he loves his camera he also said he tries not to go above 2000 ISO in low light situations.
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    I have checked every single camera I have owned against DxO Mark's tests; their results are THE MOST ACCURATE characterization of actual performance that I could possibly imagine. Like the crappy performance of the Nikon D70; the very wide DR but weak high ISO performance of the Fuji S5 Pro; the beautiful color and wide Dynamic range of the D3x; the absolutely chitty sensor in the D2x; the good, solid, yet outdated sensor in the Canon 5D classic. I've owned all those cameras, and the DxO Mark data are exceedingly accurate in showing the strengths and weaknesses of all those cameras.

    Your claims about astounding ISO performance in the GH4 are pretty strong claims, but you're right, it pales in comparison to the D750. When somebody joins a forum and picks a name like "Mirrorless Journey", I would naturally expect some type of non-objective glorification of the choice that user has made. But the rest of the world wants objective data,and deserves an unbiased viewpoint regarding boasts and wild, generalized claims. Data arrived at by way of scientific tests, with objective results is what DxO mark provides about the three cameras you singled out by name. I am familiar with people trying to justify their purchasing decisions in on-line forums, but the data are what they are, and your claims seem to be out of line with the data. Trying to cast doubt on DxO Mark's data is a familiar tactic. I've seen that before, but as I said, I've looked at the cameras I have owned and shot, and the data seem exceptionally indicative of the weaknesses and strengths of each camera I've used.
     
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  9. Scatterbrained

    Scatterbrained Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    The problem with shooting under uncontrolled conditions is that you can't be sure of the validity outcome. For example, shooting at iso 6400 in the middle of the night outside is going to render a whole lot more noise than shooting at iso 6400 in the afternoon. Shooting at high iso because there is no light vs shooting at high iso because you need a high shutterspeed are two different things. That's why controlled testing matters.
     
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  10. The_Traveler

    The_Traveler Completely Counter-dependent Supporting Member

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    Too much of this argument is like comparing running shoes to fishing boots; the strength for either one is totally dependent on the primary use and requirements.

    I would love to shoot full frame if the camera/lens were light and small and thus maneuverable - and the high iso performance would be just an added plus.
     
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  11. SnappingShark

    SnappingShark Always learning. Supporting Member

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    I am not a professional.
    I do not print out HUGE prints.
    I shoot photographs for my own enjoyment, and to capture moments of my life and/or those around me.

    I have an issue with lifting heavy stuff on one of my arms - and so for me the m43 system is perfect, and in fact, I think my photography has improved since I made the switch! (Although of course, that is questionable heh).
    I would like to think of full frame vs crop vs m43 like cell phones.
    full frame = iphone 6+ (big, does everything blah blah blah)
    crop = iphone 6 (just not as impressive as the 6+)
    m43 = android note 4 (big, but you don't notice cos its light, yet so customizable).

    anyhoo - I love my m43 system! :)
     
  12. sashbar

    sashbar Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    The digital camera choice is much wider these days than it was even 5 years ago, there are different types of camera now capable of serious IQ.

    Not long ago you had a DSLR that was a "serious" camera and some amateurs bridge camera as a back up: travel, family snapshots etc. but really it was not a competitor to your DSLR.

    Now we have different types of cameras that can compete or be preferable to DSLR in some situations. They all can be considered as "first choice" cameras depending on you specific needs and the kind of photography, since they all have passed that threshold where the IQ is professionally accepted.

    So I think we have passed that stage where photographers had one main camera, and it was a DSLR. These days I think a dedicated hobbyist may have three cameras that together can meet his demands completely. Hey even AFP/Getty pros are being given a little Ricoh as a back up.

    The best, versatile package for me now would be Ricoh GR, FUJI X-T1 and Nikon D750. Each of these cameras is capable of stunning, professional image quality and each has its unique strengths. Each has all the controls and customisation options you need. Each was made for serious photography. I have got two of them and probably will add the third one later, when I sell my DX Nikon stuff.

    What stops me now from buying D750 is the suspicious that it will not be used too often because in my view high ISO (above 12800) is overrated, simply because it is not needed often. ISO 6400 is absolutely a working one now with X-T1, night city shots come up very good even with SOOC JPEGS with no pp, and this is enough for my photography.

    Interestingly, my perception of different cameras has shifted to the point where I regard X -T1 as a universal Jack-of-all-trade camera that will be good in 80% of the time, whereas the little GR and the big (do not laugh) D750 are in fact more specialised cameras that are needed for those 20%. (Well, maybe Ricoh is used more often since it is with me almost all the time. )

    I think it will be a common trend, with mirrorless getting better and better, DSLRs will be shifted to a specialised camera niche. Not soon, but eventually. DX though is doomed I think. I realised it after shooting with little Ricoh and X-T1. Both give me better IQ than DX Nikon glass.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
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