Critque VS A Happy Customer

[RebeccaAPhotography]

The general public is a really bad choice for an arbiter of quality. Which is really good news for most people who have something to sell.

Joe

The music industry has thrived on that concept for decades. Oh wait, maybe 90s boy bands and Justin Beiber are better musicians than Yo Yo Ma or Wynton Marsalis...

Here's a great case study in how oblivious the average person is to quality. Joshua Bell, one of the world's greatest violinists, sat in a Washington, DC metro station and played some of the most difficult violin pieces in the world. On a Stradivarius, no less. Over 1,000 people passed him, only seven people stopped and listened and he successfully busked $32.

Pearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost.com

Hear hear! I could show you 30 bars of Mozart that contain more musical creativity than the sum total of all hip hop, country and grunge combined.

Now you know we're both snobs.

Joe

I majored in music performance and music ed! Great analogy!

 

[ClickAddict]

Kmh, hit it on the head with the emotinal attachment. But I think even though some might might know it's not a technically good photograph, they know it does not matter for them. If you are taking a picture for a museum to be admired by everyone, then quality is certainly paramount. If you are looking for photos to be memory triggers (family albums, pics of grandkids hung on wall...) then quality certainly takes backseat to content. Yeah the shot of little Bobbie with ice cream all over his face, squinting in the camera while on grandpas shoulders might be missing grandpas hand and be slighty over exposed, but it will bring more joy to them to view over the years than some "quality" picture of some traintracks leading to nothing. The emotional capture is part of photograph. The intended target market determines how much importance it plays.

 

[RebeccaAPhotography]

My .02...........Just because a client is happy isn't an excuse to settle into mediocrity. It's good that your client is happy with the work, but taking to heart the critiques you receive from professionals and seasoned amateurs will only make you better, and your clients happier. Also, for me, the last thing I want is for a client that doesn't know any better to be brimming with pride as they show my mediocre work to a real photographer. I would rather have that "real" photographer say "hey, that pretty good!" Than "who the hell took those? I hope you didn't pay for that!".


Not to mention the whole concept of pride........

Just sayin.

I TOTALLY! agree with you 100%! Trust me im NOT a lazy person and I strive for perfection. I always have no matter what field I am studying in wether it be playing my music, teaching students, riding horses, training horses or teach others to ride/typical horse care (all things I LOVE and have a huge passion for) one can never stop learning. There is always more to learn and CC is the best way to learn! Ive already learned quite a bit in the past few days I've been apart of this forum

 

[MissCream]

You just better hope that they don't go to a professional photographer then compare them.

 

[RebeccaAPhotography]

I'm not affraid if they were to show them to a professional photographer. If anything it'd be great to hear their honest opnion. When I photograph people I make it crystal clear that I am brand new. I do not lie or sugar coat it. I flat out say I am a newbie I worked on my portfolio for a year and want to expand my portfolio. This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order. I order them from a site I like not a typical walmart, cvs, walgreens etc.. etc.. I explain to them that I know I have a lot to learn and I am not perfect and never will say I am. I strive to get what they want and we talk in great much of exactly what they want out of me and out of the pictures I take. I know probably none of my photos are perfect to you professional photographers but like someone else said I
do capture that moment that they will remember for ever and work like all hell to make that picture more perfect. I am a newbie and have a lot to learn but I'm one determined S O B and will get it eventually

I like to do portraits, families, kids, animals etc. If I can capture that typical Goofy loook my friend Carrie's horse ALWAYS does in a picture which captures his attitude, his awesome appy spots and that spunky look of life he always shows and she's happy then I'm happy she's happy.

Everyone always has room to learn One of the best things of life, I must say

 

[Stradawhovious]

I'm not affraid if they were to show them to a professional photographer. If anything it'd be great to hear their honest opnion. When I photograph people I make it crystal clear that I am brand new. I do not lie or sugar coat it. I flat out say I am a newbie I worked on my portfolio for a year and want to expand my portfolio. This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order. I order them from a site I like not a typical walmart, cvs, walgreens etc.. etc.. I explain to them that I know I have a lot to learn and I am not perfect and never will say I am. I strive to get what they want and we talk in great much of exactly what they want out of me and out of the pictures I take. I know probably none of my photos are perfect to you professional photographers but like someone else said I
do capture that moment that they will remember for ever and work like all hell to make that picture more perfect. I am a newbie and have a lot to learn but I'm one determined S O B and will get it eventually

I like to do portraits, families, kids, animals etc. If I can capture that typical Goofy loook my friend Carrie's horse ALWAYS does in a picture which captures his attitude, his awesome appy spots and that spunky look of life he always shows and she's happy then I'm happy she's happy.

Everyone always has room to learn One of the best things of life, I must say

It seems to me that you are looking for people to help you justify your selling your photos as an amateur, rather than really asking our opinion on anything. And when you aren't getting the reinforcement from us, you are providing it for yourself. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

Trust me, you aren't the first to do that here. It's an all but daily occurance

Do whatever you want, but remember these key things......

It takes a lot of learning and hard work to produce professional quality photos. I'm not certain exactly how much because I haven't acheived it yet. Maybe someday, but not yet.

It takes almost no time at all for anyone with even a modicum of photography knowledge to point out exactly how and why a photograph was taken by a rank amateur.

Personally it would kill me (and understandibly any repeat business) if someone were to make my "client" feel silly for paying for an inferior photograph (why I don't charge yet). And trust me when I say this...... Be it photography, car repair, decorating etc. all it take is one time for this to happen to lose a paying client forever. Just one time. Friend or not.

From one amateur to another...... stop justifying, and start learning. I'm not trying to sound like a complete douchebag here, I'm actually trying to help. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Derrel]

The general public is a really bad choice for an arbiter of quality. Which is really good news for most people who have something to sell.

Joe

But, but, but, Joe!!! The general public has made McDonald's and Subway Sandwiches the two most-numerous, bestest, most-goodest restaurants in Amurrrr-ica! And WalMart is the king of Amurrrr-ican retail. Are you somehow implying that the general population population of Amurrrr-icans is not familiar with what makes a fine photograph?( Namely, a "good camera"!) Izzzat what'cher saying? Cause them's fighting words where I come frum!!!

 

[KmH]

This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order.

From a business perspective, this approach is an all to commonly made mistake made by new retail photographers. Apparently, your 'business', is supported by other income. I'm willing to bet you do not have a written business plan, and little if any business acumen.

Everytime you raise your prices, you will eliminate most of your repeat customers. You will have to develope a new marketing/promotion plan each time you do, and build a new customer base, which takes time.

Business people have long known it is far less expensive to keep your current customers, than it is to attract new ones.

 

[Derrel]

SNIP>>> Business people have long known it is far less expensive to keep your current customers, than it is to attract new ones.

There are people here on TPF who ought to type that statement out in a text file, and then hit "paste" about 200 times, then print out an 8x10 sheet of JUST that phrase, and plaster it on their wall.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Its very hard to rebuild or change a reputation once you get one. So you may be content now, but what happens when you learn to take professional quality photographs and want to buy professional gear and take your "business" to the next level ( your overhead increases )? You will have a hard time because NOONE is going to be willing to pay you a reasonable and fair amount for your top quality work when you have a reputation for taking cheap, low quality and easy photos for people. The photos may have an emotional impact and your customers may not understand every nuance of photography, but what is a benefit to you now, will harm you later. It will blow up in your face. They won't understand why you charged their cousin $100 for an engagement shoot 2 years ago and now you want $500 from them. Saying "Well I use "L" lenses now and I am using hand metered strobe lighting with a professional backdrop" will mean nothing to those same uneducated customers.

 

[johnh2005]

I'm not affraid if they were to show them to a professional photographer. If anything it'd be great to hear their honest opnion. When I photograph people I make it crystal clear that I am brand new. I do not lie or sugar coat it. I flat out say I am a newbie I worked on my portfolio for a year and want to expand my portfolio. This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order. I order them from a site I like not a typical walmart, cvs, walgreens etc.. etc.. I explain to them that I know I have a lot to learn and I am not perfect and never will say I am. I strive to get what they want and we talk in great much of exactly what they want out of me and out of the pictures I take. I know probably none of my photos are perfect to you professional photographers but like someone else said I
do capture that moment that they will remember for ever and work like all hell to make that picture more perfect. I am a newbie and have a lot to learn but I'm one determined S O B and will get it eventually

I like to do portraits, families, kids, animals etc. If I can capture that typical Goofy loook my friend Carrie's horse ALWAYS does in a picture which captures his attitude, his awesome appy spots and that spunky look of life he always shows and she's happy then I'm happy she's happy.

Everyone always has room to learn One of the best things of life, I must say

It seems to me that you are looking for people to help you justify your selling your photos as an amateur, rather than really asking our opinion on anything. And when you aren't getting the reinforcement from us, you are providing it for yourself. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

Trust me, you aren't the first to do that here. It's an all but daily occurance

Do whatever you want, but remember these key things......

It takes a lot of learning and hard work to produce professional quality photos. I'm not certain exactly how much because I haven't acheived it yet. Maybe someday, but not yet.

It takes almost no time at all for anyone with even a modicum of photography knowledge to point out exactly how and why a photograph was taken by a rank amateur.

Personally it would kill me (and understandibly any repeat business) if someone were to make my "client" feel silly for paying for an inferior photograph (why I don't charge yet). And trust me when I say this...... Be it photography, car repair, decorating etc. all it take is one time for this to happen to lose a paying client forever. Just one time. Friend or not.

From one amateur to another...... stop justifying, and start learning. I'm not trying to sound like a complete douchebag here, I'm actually trying to help. Take it for what it's worth.

I was not going to bother chiming in on this until I read this. I think, in my opinion, you are taking the OP wrong. I will highlight what they said as reference. In reading the highlights above it sounds to me like this person has a very good attitude. They know they are not great. They know they need to learn more. They know they need to improve. I think they were just questioning the difference between a clients "likes" and the "professional likes" There is a HUGE difference. However, in the end it is the client's likes that gets you paid.

Some people may really want dark slightly OOF shots to suit their mood. They may want Overblown shots. They may want blurry shots or selective coloring. It may not be "right" in the eyes of the professional world but it is what they want.

Now, with that said. The OP needs to learn a lot. In doing that and keeping the ability to capture the moment they will improve as a photographer and make more sales.

When I was taking some VERY amateur shots of my niece one of the ones I was about to 'bin my sister LOVED. About the only thing in focus was the baby's face. Her arms were waving all crazy she had a really whacky smile on her face and she was not even looking at the camera. However, this is HER. She is a super happy baby who loves flailing her arms and smiling at the "angles" It captured the moment perfectly. My sister has it on her facebook and it gets a LOT of likes and stuff. If I had posted it here it would have been ripped to shreds for not being "right"

However, I got a lot of good shots that day. Well good for me at least. Mainly because I have spent a LOT of time here reading C&C, giving C&C, and even getting some C&C on my own crap. I have grown and learned as a photographer because of that. That one "bad" shot made the day though!

 

[Stradawhovious]

was not going to bother chiming in on this until I read this. I think, in my opinion, you are taking the OP wrong.

Distinct possibility.

When I was taking some VERY amateur shots of my niece one of the ones I was about to 'bin my sister LOVED. About the only thing in focus was the baby's face. Her arms were waving all crazy she had a really whacky smile on her face and she was not even looking at the camera.

Did you then sell this image to your sister? Therein lies the rub.

Again, I may be misinterpreting the OP. I've been know to do that. It's just how I see the direction of the thread heading.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Nobody wants blown and blurry shots. They may not overtly state that, but this sounds like the photographer trying to make excuses for their mistakes simply because a customer is content with the shots you give them.

"Well they didn't cry when I gave them their sh***y pics, so they must be into blown pictures, crap focus, terrible post processing, and grainy images." People may communicate "yeah I want one of those really bright washed out pics that are all the rage" what they most likely mean is they want a "Contra Jour" style photo into the light. They don't mean "Hey can you blow all the highlights in my picture " If they say "I like when the images have that sort of soft blur to them" They most likely mean "I want a shallow depth of field so that there is a nice creamy bokeh effect." They DONT mean "hey, can you miss the focus and then try to justify it as art? "

 

[RebeccaAPhotography]

This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order.

From a business perspective, this approach is an all to commonly made mistake made by new retail photographers. Apparently, your 'business', is supported by other income. I'm willing to bet you do not have a written business plan, and little if any business acumen.

Everytime you raise your prices, you will eliminate most of your repeat customers. You will have to develope a new marketing/promotion plan each time you do, and build a new customer base, which takes time.

Business people have long known it is far less expensive to keep your current customers, than it is to attract new ones.

My business is supported by other income.... MY REAL JOB. I've saved $$ from my real job with the gov't and have purhcased things slowly but surely. I don't havea business plan written out. I just wanna build my portfolio and make back what I've spent so far. No matter what I'm keeping my real job bc of the real good benifits and hours that i want so I can be partly stay at home mom and do my photography thang on the side.

 

[RebeccaAPhotography]

I'm not affraid if they were to show them to a professional photographer. If anything it'd be great to hear their honest opnion. When I photograph people I make it crystal clear that I am brand new. I do not lie or sugar coat it. I flat out say I am a newbie I worked on my portfolio for a year and want to expand my portfolio. This is why I offer folks free sitting fees. and charge very very very little for the prints they order. I order them from a site I like not a typical walmart, cvs, walgreens etc.. etc.. I explain to them that I know I have a lot to learn and I am not perfect and never will say I am. I strive to get what they want and we talk in great much of exactly what they want out of me and out of the pictures I take. I know probably none of my photos are perfect to you professional photographers but like someone else said I
do capture that moment that they will remember for ever and work like all hell to make that picture more perfect. I am a newbie and have a lot to learn but I'm one determined S O B and will get it eventually

I like to do portraits, families, kids, animals etc. If I can capture that typical Goofy loook my friend Carrie's horse ALWAYS does in a picture which captures his attitude, his awesome appy spots and that spunky look of life he always shows and she's happy then I'm happy she's happy.

Everyone always has room to learn One of the best things of life, I must say

It seems to me that you are looking for people to help you justify your selling your photos as an amateur, rather than really asking our opinion on anything. And when you aren't getting the reinforcement from us, you are providing it for yourself. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

Trust me, you aren't the first to do that here. It's an all but daily occurance

Do whatever you want, but remember these key things......

It takes a lot of learning and hard work to produce professional quality photos. I'm not certain exactly how much because I haven't acheived it yet. Maybe someday, but not yet.

It takes almost no time at all for anyone with even a modicum of photography knowledge to point out exactly how and why a photograph was taken by a rank amateur.

Personally it would kill me (and understandibly any repeat business) if someone were to make my "client" feel silly for paying for an inferior photograph (why I don't charge yet). And trust me when I say this...... Be it photography, car repair, decorating etc. all it take is one time for this to happen to lose a paying client forever. Just one time. Friend or not.

From one amateur to another...... stop justifying, and start learning. I'm not trying to sound like a complete douchebag here, I'm actually trying to help. Take it for what it's worth.

I was not going to bother chiming in on this until I read this. I think, in my opinion, you are taking the OP wrong. I will highlight what they said as reference. In reading the highlights above it sounds to me like this person has a very good attitude. They know they are not great. They know they need to learn more. They know they need to improve. I think they were just questioning the difference between a clients "likes" and the "professional likes" There is a HUGE difference. However, in the end it is the client's likes that gets you paid.

Some people may really want dark slightly OOF shots to suit their mood. They may want Overblown shots. They may want blurry shots or selective coloring. It may not be "right" in the eyes of the professional world but it is what they want.

Now, with that said. The OP needs to learn a lot. In doing that and keeping the ability to capture the moment they will improve as a photographer and make more sales.

When I was taking some VERY amateur shots of my niece one of the ones I was about to 'bin my sister LOVED. About the only thing in focus was the baby's face. Her arms were waving all crazy she had a really whacky smile on her face and she was not even looking at the camera. However, this is HER. She is a super happy baby who loves flailing her arms and smiling at the "angles" It captured the moment perfectly. My sister has it on her facebook and it gets a LOT of likes and stuff. If I had posted it here it would have been ripped to shreds for not being "right"

However, I got a lot of good shots that day. Well good for me at least. Mainly because I have spent a LOT of time here reading C&C, giving C&C, and even getting some C&C on my own crap. I have grown and learned as a photographer because of that. That one "bad" shot made the day though!

Thank you! You got a better feel of "me"