d300 vs. 5d?

[Amitay]

Recommended...

 

[FidelCastrovich]

Well I'm a Canon freak but out of those two I know which one I'd get and it doesn't have a 5 in it!

2008 will be the year of Nikon

from what I can gather the 5D replacement will not be much of an improvement, more of a way to make the camera cheaper, poss under £1000 for a body, but that said my sources have gone a bit quiet on that front

I don't think it's in Canon's best interest to lower the price of an FF camera. If i were them, i'd try to squeeze as many years and as much $$ out of the crop cameras, before i made the FF easily obtainable. I tend to think that crop sensors are here to stay for a while, and releasing and developing quality EFs lenses doesn't make sense if you're gonna release a cheap(er) FF body.
But that's just my opinion. What are your thoughts?

 

[sabbath999]

I am going with the D300 over the D3 (I will prolly end up getting both in the next year or so) BECAUSE it has the cropped sensor.

I know that sounds odd, but I will be using it pretty much for sports & wildlife (telephoto)... and the crop is a good thing when it comes to telephoto.

If I were shooting things like weddings, studio, street, etc., I would have gone the other way.

Still, I am only buying full frame compatible lenses, because that is the future IMHO.

 

[jstuedle]

I agree with Sabbath that FF will be the sensor of the future Pro/Simi-Pro DSLR. I would expect the D400 (or whatever it's called) to be FF. As sensor manufacturing costs come down we will see more of them on the high end rigs.

 

[FidelCastrovich]

I am going with the D300 over the D3 (I will prolly end up getting both in the next year or so) BECAUSE it has the cropped sensor.

I know that sounds odd, but I will be using it pretty much for sports & wildlife (telephoto)... and the crop is a good thing when it comes to telephoto.
.

Why not use the money you'd spend on the D300, on a 1.4 converter?
The higher ISO capabilities of the D3 will compensate for the loss of light.
I mean, if you KNOW you're gonna get the D3 anyway, might as well buy great lenses, instead of another body, and use them on an amazing body that allows you to shoot in relative darkness.
I don't know the price of the D300, but i'm pretty sure you can squeeze in a teleconverter and a great tele prime in its place.
Unless you already have all the lenses you could ever want...

Edit : jstuedle - I, of course, agree that FF is the future. Question is when will this future come, and how many crop cameras and lenses will be released until then. I think it's farther than one may think. I think we'll see a Nikon d800 and a Canon 100D, before the crop sensor becomes history.

 

[soylentgreen]

On a lighter note, with the advent of FF sensors on the horizon for the everyman, comes the realization that better lenses will be needed. A blaring wake-up call for so-so lenses that crap out at the edges that crop sensors were so nice to omit from the image.

 

[FidelCastrovich]

On a lighter note, with the advent of FF sensors on the horizon for the everyman, comes the realization that better lenses will be needed. A blaring wake-up call for so-so lenses that crap out at the edges that crop sensors were so nice to omit from the image.

35mm format was around before the crappy lenses of todays standards. We'll just be back where we were, closing the circle from the opposite direction. People won't stop using lenses like the Canon 28mm f1.8 just because it's soft at the edges and it shows on FF. We'll keep using them, just as we did before. And we will probably become less spoiled as we won't have the crop sensor to hide the disadvantages of otherwise great lenses.

 

[sabbath999]

Why not use the money you'd spend on the D300, on a 1.4 converter?
The higher ISO capabilities of the D3 will compensate for the loss of light.
I mean, if you KNOW you're gonna get the D3 anyway, might as well buy great lenses, instead of another body, and use them on an amazing body that allows you to shoot in relative darkness.
I don't know the price of the D300, but i'm pretty sure you can squeeze in a teleconverter and a great tele prime in its place.
Unless you already have all the lenses you could ever want...

Well, I am shooting with a 70-200 f/2.8 VR for football & volleyball, and I already own the TC-17 teleconverter, which loses me two stops. I suppose I could go out an buy a better lens... as soon as somebody invents one... While my Nikon teleconverter is sharp, it is not as sharp as the lens without it.

I am shooting the Sigma 24-60 f/2.8 for basketball, and while this works OK I am going to replace it as money permits with a good Nikkor.

I am not really thinking too hard about dropping 7 grand (or however much it is) to buy the new 400mm f/2.8 VR so I can shoot high school football for the local newspaper and the regional sports websites that I shoot for. Sure, it would be nice to have, but that is indeed a chunk of change.

In most of our local gyms & football fields, I have to shoot at 3200 ISO ALREADY to get 1/800th of a second at f/2.8, since the lighting is so poor. Losing 2 more stops is NOT the answer, nor is shooting slower and having blurry pictures.

Shooting High ISO and using Noise Ninja (which I absolutely LOVE by the way) is what I do already... and 3200 on a D80 is not a pretty sight.

Because of the sensor resolutions, it takes 1/800th to really stop action on a DSLR when it comes to sports. The D3's full frame sensor would work just fine indoors for basketball (obviously), but not at all for football under the conditions I am shooting with the lens I am shooting. (night, badly lighted fields, no sideline access between the 30 yard lines -- press not allowed into the players box).

Friday Night Lights may be a cool idea for a TV show (dunno, never watched it) but let me tell you the actual lights these schools use are pitiful.

I will end up getting a D3 eventually, but I don't NEED one right now. When I NEED one, and happen to have a spare 5 grand sitting around, I will buy one.

 

[RyanLilly]

On a lighter note, with the advent of FF sensors on the horizon for the everyman, comes the realization that better lenses will be needed. A blaring wake-up call for so-so lenses that crap out at the edges that crop sensors were so nice to omit from the image.

I don't see FF for the everyman happening very soon. The manufacturers have no incentive to do so. The vast majority of people are quite satisfied with crop sensors and basic features like the d40 and XTi, those who want more, will move up to the D300 and 40D segment of the market, and the high-end pros who only use the best, will always choose the D3 and 1D series.

The product line is created intentionally stratified, putting FF sensors in low end cameras would bring the different product tiers too close together and lower profit margins.

The advancement of newer technology is is intentionally slowed and staggered to create and keep higher profit margins.

Plus the MegaPixel war will soon come to and end; do you remember the MegaHertz war with PC's? Now they dont even advertise processor speed.

 

[FidelCastrovich]

Well, I am shooting with a 70-200 f/2.8 VR for football & volleyball, and I already own the TC-17 teleconverter, which loses me two stops. I suppose I could go out an buy a better lens... as soon as somebody invents one... While my Nikon teleconverter is sharp, it is not as sharp as the lens without it.

I am shooting the Sigma 24-60 f/2.8 for basketball, and while this works OK I am going to replace it as money permits with a good Nikkor.

I am not really thinking too hard about dropping 7 grand (or however much it is) to buy the new 400mm f/2.8 VR so I can shoot high school football for the local newspaper and the regional sports websites that I shoot for. Sure, it would be nice to have, but that is indeed a chunk of change.

In most of our local gyms & football fields, I have to shoot at 3200 ISO ALREADY to get 1/800th of a second at f/2.8, since the lighting is so poor. Losing 2 more stops is NOT the answer, nor is shooting slower and having blurry pictures.

Shooting High ISO and using Noise Ninja (which I absolutely LOVE by the way) is what I do already... and 3200 on a D80 is not a pretty sight.

Because of the sensor resolutions, it takes 1/800th to really stop action on a DSLR when it comes to sports. The D3's full frame sensor would work just fine indoors for basketball (obviously), but not at all for football under the conditions I am shooting with the lens I am shooting. (night, badly lighted fields, no sideline access between the 30 yard lines -- press not allowed into the players box).

Friday Night Lights may be a cool idea for a TV show (dunno, never watched it) but let me tell you the actual lights these schools use are pitiful.

I will end up getting a D3 eventually, but I don't NEED one right now. When I NEED one, and happen to have a spare 5 grand sitting around, I will buy one.

How about investing in a couple of cheap but powerful flashes, and trigger them remotely? That will surely help your indoor sports photography.
Look into it, it may save you time, money and headaches, as well as produce better looking images.

 

[Sideburns]

I don't see FF for the everyman happening very soon. The manufacturers have no incentive to do so. The vast majority of people are quite satisfied with crop sensors and basic features like the d40 and XTi, those who want more, will move up to the D300 and 40D segment of the market, and the high-end pros who only use the best, will always choose the D3 and 1D series.

The product line is created intentionally stratified, putting FF sensors in low end cameras would bring the different product tiers too close together and lower profit margins.

The advancement of newer technology is is intentionally slowed and staggered to create and keep higher profit margins.

Plus the MegaPixel war will soon come to and end; do you remember the MegaHertz war with PC's? Now they dont even advertise processor speed.

That's just because Mhz wars never made sense...lol.
If you do some research...Intel was racing itself...

Anyways...

You are right. If a Semi-pro could get Either a 40D with a full Frame, or 5D...there'd be almost no question...
They divide the line just so that different people will stick to a different range...and hopefully someone on the edge will have to take a big step up.

(Rebel XTi to 5D, to 1D, for example)

 

[jstuedle]

My little commentary on FF sensors may have been misunderstood a little. I don't think clip chips are going the way of the dinosaur in the foreseeable future. The consumer DSLR may always have the APS size chip while the D?00 and D? series I believe will become and stay FF chips. The consumer will always play the dollar game and so will the manufacturers to make as cheap, but as capable a camera as can be had. That is within the consumers price range. Pro's will want the larger pixel and sensor for quality reasons.

 

[sabbath999]

How about investing in a couple of cheap but powerful flashes, and trigger them remotely? That will surely help your indoor sports photography.
Look into it, it may save you time, money and headaches, as well as produce better looking images.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. It's not like I have an all access pass to every gym in my part of the state... how would I be able to use two remotely triggered flashes? I may do up to six different games in four different gyms in a night, depending on where I am working... by myself, no body to hold the flashes and no way to mount them.

 

[newrmdmike]

ff is a good thing for camera makers to make more accesible, esp nikon. . . they were way close to losing me as a customer. . . and i spend $10,000 a year on gear at this point, and will spend just as much or more in the next year.

 

[jstuedle]

Using superclamps and pocket wizards a flash can be mounted and ready in a couple of min. The only problem is a ladder or balcony rail to find a clamp spot. Superclamps will attach to about anything up to 2 1/2" or so. Once you get the feel of your flashes, you will know what to preset for exposure and zoom head range. 2 flashes on each goal and your cook'in with gas. 4 games a night might tax even the best among us.