Damn it...Im Determined!

[arcooke]

So, I finally started shooting in Raw...thats one Major hurrdle...now for shooting in Manual.

Don't shoot in full manual.

It sounds like you're using the internal light metering system that's built into your camera. And it sounds like you're trying to take basically normal photos (no special effects). If that's the case then using the camera in full manual mode is slower, less efficient and likely less accurate.

Take your poinsettia photo for example. You didn't know without the camera's meter that 1/30 sec at f/4.5 was a good exposure. With the camera on full manual you had to set either the shutter or f/stop and then adjust the other until the camera meter zeroed. If you put the camera in S mode and set the shutter speed to 1/30 sec. The same meter would read the same light the same way and come to the same conclusion and set the f/stop to 4.5. In fact it may have been slightly more accurate and set it to f/4.83 (depends on the camera). It's still your responsibility to monitor what the camera's doing, but that can be done in less time than it takes to set both shutter and aperture manually. That really great shot came and went in that time.

Do it the other way: Set your camera to A mode and set the f/stop to 4.5. The same meter will meter the same light the same way and set the camera's shutter to 1/30 sec. or maybe more accurately to 1/42 sec. Again you must monitor what the camera is doing and again no one can manually set both the shutter and f/stop is the same time that they can set one of those and then mentally check off the other.

Full manual only makes sense when you aren't going to use the camera's internal metering system. That means you know the camera's meter would be wrong. That's possible. That's also allowed for by good cameras and handled with a +/- exposure comp control. On my camera that control is directly under my right thumb and immediately active. Again it's faster than full manual.

When I use the internal meter in my camera I use S or A mode and the exposure comp control and I can arrive at the best exposure answer faster and more efficiently than any one using any camera in full manual. I do use my camera in full manual when I'm using my external light meter or strobes. That's when it makes sense.

You're using the internal meter in your camera? Then use it. You're smart enough to know when the meter will be wrong? Then use the exposure comp control.

Joe

Good tips, but I'd have to disagree and say DO start learning manual mode. The priority modes should be something you learn later, after you know how each setting interacts with one another. I think it's good to know exactly what your camera is taking control of, before you let it take control. I'd say get comfortable with manual mode, then play with the priority modes.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

So, I finally started shooting in Raw...thats one Major hurrdle...now for shooting in Manual.

Don't shoot in full manual.

It sounds like you're using the internal light metering system that's built into your camera. And it sounds like you're trying to take basically normal photos (no special effects). If that's the case then using the camera in full manual mode is slower, less efficient and likely less accurate.

Take your poinsettia photo for example. You didn't know without the camera's meter that 1/30 sec at f/4.5 was a good exposure. With the camera on full manual you had to set either the shutter or f/stop and then adjust the other until the camera meter zeroed. If you put the camera in S mode and set the shutter speed to 1/30 sec. The same meter would read the same light the same way and come to the same conclusion and set the f/stop to 4.5. In fact it may have been slightly more accurate and set it to f/4.83 (depends on the camera). It's still your responsibility to monitor what the camera's doing, but that can be done in less time than it takes to set both shutter and aperture manually. That really great shot came and went in that time.

Do it the other way: Set your camera to A mode and set the f/stop to 4.5. The same meter will meter the same light the same way and set the camera's shutter to 1/30 sec. or maybe more accurately to 1/42 sec. Again you must monitor what the camera is doing and again no one can manually set both the shutter and f/stop is the same time that they can set one of those and then mentally check off the other.

Full manual only makes sense when you aren't going to use the camera's internal metering system. That means you know the camera's meter would be wrong. That's possible. That's also allowed for by good cameras and handled with a +/- exposure comp control. On my camera that control is directly under my right thumb and immediately active. Again it's faster than full manual.

When I use the internal meter in my camera I use S or A mode and the exposure comp control and I can arrive at the best exposure answer faster and more efficiently than any one using any camera in full manual. I do use my camera in full manual when I'm using my external light meter or strobes. That's when it makes sense.

You're using the internal meter in your camera? Then use it. You're smart enough to know when the meter will be wrong? Then use the exposure comp control.

Joe

Good tips, but I'd have to disagree and say DO start learning manual mode. The priority modes should be something you learn later, after you know how each setting interacts with one another. I think it's good to know exactly what your camera is taking control of, before you let it take control. I'd say get comfortable with manual mode, then play with the priority modes.

I agree. Nothing wrong with learning it, when she is sitting down, just trying to figure it out. Cuz you know, first you have to understand whats going on, before you know when your light meter is wrong, to use exposure compensation. It's called learning the fundementals. Later she can figure out when she can go semi auto and why it's helpful.

Joe, I usually agree with your spot on posts, but not this time.

 

[slate mike]

Great thread! Full of basics that I "thought" I knew, but wasn't sure of. Thanks, all.

 

[clanthar]

Good tips, but I'd have to disagree and say DO start learning manual mode. The priority modes should be something you learn later, after you know how each setting interacts with one another. I think it's good to know exactly what your camera is taking control of, before you let it take control. I'd say get comfortable with manual mode, then play with the priority modes.

I agree. Nothing wrong with learning it, when she is sitting down, just trying to figure it out. Cuz you know, first you have to understand whats going on, before you know when your light meter is wrong, to use exposure compensation. It's called learning the fundementals. Later she can figure out when she can go semi auto and why it's helpful.

Joe, I usually agree with your spot on posts, but not this time.

You're suggesting that full manual is a good teaching tool -- that's fine but then make that really clear. Say, "when you get good at this and understand what you're doing you can switch over to using semi-auto like the pros." That's not what a lot of novices hear. I know -- I get a hundred plus a year in a classroom and I have to set them straight. They come in with this nonsense that, "you're not a photographer until you shoot in manual." Or, "I only shoot in manual cause my testosterone level is really high."

I agree that time spent using the camera slowly and carefully and with attention to detail is profitable and aids learning. I can accept that using a camera in full manual may be a good learning tool and an advantage as it slows them down: But only if the student understands that's what it is. Then it should not be presented as a final goal.

In normal circumstances if the camera's internal meter is going to be used, no one using the camera in full manual will be able to as quickly and efficiently arrive at the best solution as I will using the camera in semi-auto mode. I grant you full manual as a learning method has value. Once you learn, go back to the first sentence of my post.

So make sure when the novices express a desire to learn full manual, they're not operating under a series of misconceptions. I've been a photographer for over 30 years and I don't use full manual, because I'm smart enough not to.

Take Care,
Joe

P.S. Bitter, you're the man.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

:thumbup:

 

[NikonNewbie]

Actually...I dont want to make myself look bad...but no, I didnt use the cameras meter...I picked that one visually...after reviewing them all, and decided it was the best one
However...thanks to you all for everything! I'm going to get this all...and I'm taking a "understanding your digital camera" class on Monday night (so long as it doesnt get cancelled)...
apparently there aren't many dummies around here.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

You do know how your meter works, don't you? It's kinda the key to the puzzle.

Disregarding metering modes for the moment...

To get your setting for an exposure, your goal is to get the big bar under the scale at zero.
This is what the camera thinks is the correct exposure (it's not always right though).

My method for things that are stationary...
First I consider my lighting conditions and set the ISO.
Then I decide what DoF I want, and set the aperture.
Now I have to change the shutter speed to get that bar at zero.

If I want to stop action...
Again, ISO for the lighting conditions.
I set my shutter speed to something like 1/250
Now you are changing the aperture to get that bar to zero.

If you know you want a certain DoF, and a high shutter speed, you can change your ISO to get that bar to zero.

This is the very basic idea I am putting forth.

Metering modes change what the camera is metering, from The whole scene, down to a very small section of the scene.
The camera tries to tell you the setting that will yield the best exposure for the scene, achieving middle gray.
This is why, when you meter snow, the image comes out gray, and this is an example of where your meter lies to you, and you you have to decide to increase the exposure to expose for white snow, not gray.

 

[NikonNewbie]

You do know how your meter works, don't you? It's kinda the key to the puzzle.

Yep...if the the meter is flashing to the left of the 0 it is underexposed and if its flashing to the right its over...

Im slow...but not that slow (I hope)

 

[doomhart]

You do know how your meter works, don't you? It's kinda the key to the puzzle.

Yep...if the the meter is flashing to the left of the 0 it is underexposed and if its flashing to the right its over...

Im slow...but not that slow (I hope)

Yep, but as Bitter already said, its (the camera's "guess") sometimes wrong.

I see users here has explained well enough but heres a great page to learn manual exposure:
Camera Exposure: Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed
The site is really great in explaining technicality (not boring). So time to go read!

 

[NikonNewbie]

Bitter...
I wasn't trying to be a smart ass when I replied about the camera meter...my stupid computer is moving in two speeds...slow and stop...so I dindt even see all your message, alls that came up was the part that asked "you do know ...it's key"
so...thanks again for that info, because as I was aware of the meter, your detailed explanation on why it doesnt always work is BEST because on a lot of them the meter didnt' move one way or another, so I fiddled with it.
Your have a plethra of information in your noggin...wish I could tap it.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

If it's blinking on the far sides and doesn't move one way or the other, it's because you are far away from the "correct" exposure. Your correct, or even creative, exposure will almost always be on that scale.

Your computer wasn't slow, I edited that info in. And I didn't take it in a smart ass way. I did however take your response to mean you don't really understand how it's used.

 

[LightSpeed]

then Ap..lower f #'s for a more shallow DOF and f/11 to f/22 for great DOF like landscapes?

Not necessarily. Most everything else , except this, has been covered here.
In landscape photography you will be dealing with an uncontrollable environment. Wind for instance.
What happens if you're at f/22 at ISO 200 and the wind is gusting? Motion blur in your image. The shorter the focal length, the more depth of field. A 35mm focal length will have a more broad depth of field than , say 70mm. In many cases , your lens is at infinity for landscape shots. The distance you are from your subject plays a huge role in depth of field. Now back to the basics. When you shoot the landscape shot, along with the gusts of wind. There is no reason I can think of that you can't shoot the shot at f1.4 - f2.8. with the right lens/focal length. This way you freeze the limbs of the trees and its leaves, depending on available light and retain a wide depth of field.

The other thing I wanted to mention. White balance. You will be served well by tuning your white balance to each subject you shoot. White balance changes on every subject. Auto white balance is fine, it works. Since you are shooting raw now, you have much room for correction. However, it's best to get it right , as close as possible, from the cameras exposure. But what do I know. I'm just trying to learn a few things here.

 

[NikonNewbie]

If it's blinking on the far sides and doesn't move one way or the other, it's because you are far away from the "correct" exposure. Your correct, or even creative, exposure will almost always be on that scale.

Your computer wasn't slow, I edited that info in. And I didn't take it in a smart ass way. I did however take your response to mean you don't really understand how it's used.

Yes!! you are right...I didn't know that!!! when I read the manual (and believe me the manual isn't all it's cracked up to be) it didn't give me the info you just gave me!

I didn't know that if it was blinking on both ends I was far off! Jesus H. Ch#$% ok...today is the day, I'm going to get outside with the tripod and try everything here...I will pay attention to the meter this time too!
I will apply everything I was told and give it my all.
Thanks!

 

[NikonNewbie]

then Ap..lower f #'s for a more shallow DOF and f/11 to f/22 for great DOF like landscapes?

Not necessarily. Most everything else , except this, has been covered here.
In landscape photography you will be dealing with an uncontrollable environment. Wind for instance.
What happens if you're at f/22 at ISO 200 and the wind is gusting? Motion blur in your image. The shorter the focal length, the more depth of field. A 35mm focal length will have a more broad depth of field than , say 70mm. In many cases , your lens is at infinity for landscape shots. The distance you are from your subject plays a huge role in depth of field. Now back to the basics. When you shoot the landscape shot, along with the gusts of wind. There is no reason I can think of that you can't shoot the shot at f1.4 - f2.8. with the right lens/focal length. This way you freeze the limbs of the trees and its leaves, depending on available light and retain a wide depth of field.

The other thing I wanted to mention. White balance. You will be served well by tuning your white balance to each subject you shoot. White balance changes on every subject. Auto white balance is fine, it works. Since you are shooting raw now, you have much room for correction. However, it's best to get it right , as close as possible, from the cameras exposure. But what do I know. I'm just trying to learn a few things here.

I think I just have to focus on one thing at a time here...I'm getting slammed from every direction...if I go by the basic stuff I just learned and apply it, then I'll be able to start applying other methods...so...is the basic stuff I listed in my 1st post a resonable starting point to go by?

 

[twoboysnmygirl]

then Ap..lower f #'s for a more shallow DOF and f/11 to f/22 for great DOF like landscapes?

Not necessarily. Most everything else , except this, has been covered here.
In landscape photography you will be dealing with an uncontrollable environment. Wind for instance.
What happens if you're at f/22 at ISO 200 and the wind is gusting? Motion blur in your image. The shorter the focal length, the more depth of field. A 35mm focal length will have a more broad depth of field than , say 70mm. In many cases , your lens is at infinity for landscape shots. The distance you are from your subject plays a huge role in depth of field. Now back to the basics. When you shoot the landscape shot, along with the gusts of wind. There is no reason I can think of that you can't shoot the shot at f1.4 - f2.8. with the right lens/focal length. This way you freeze the limbs of the trees and its leaves, depending on available light and retain a wide depth of field.

The other thing I wanted to mention. White balance. You will be served well by tuning your white balance to each subject you shoot. White balance changes on every subject. Auto white balance is fine, it works. Since you are shooting raw now, you have much room for correction. However, it's best to get it right , as close as possible, from the cameras exposure. But what do I know. I'm just trying to learn a few things here.

I think I just have to focus on one thing at a time here...I'm getting slammed from every direction...if I go by the basic stuff I just learned and apply it, then I'll be able to start applying other methods...so...is the basic stuff I listed in my 1st post a resonable starting point to go by?

There is a learning curve, I have found, so you just have to take things as they come and then once you understand something, revisit a prior concept and add that to your "collection" of knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I've read Understanding Exposure, and each time I learn something new that I didn't quite grasp the previous time I read it!