Difference between learning color and b&w photography

[zeppelin390]

My main interest in taking photographs are B&W photos, but I'm curious if learning the fundamentals of color is something that is necessary or should even be a requirement before getting into B&W heavily. Any opinions?

 

[CCericola]

I learned Black and White first. I think color adds another aspect to photography that builds on what you learn when you start with black and white.

 

[jowensphoto]

Most will suggest always shooting in color then converting to B/W in post processing.

 

[tirediron]

Like Christina, I started off learning black and white photography. IMO however, it's B&W that adds the additional aspect. Shooting in colour is natural; we see in colour, we know what to expect in colour, and there's not really a lot of planning required. B&W on the other hand requires some thought (which to some of us dinosaurs is pretty much transparent): Let's assume you have a person with black skin wearing a red shirt and blue jeans against a dark green wall. In a colour shot, you'd see a black person in a red shirt and blue jeans leaning against a green wall. In B&W shot however, you'd have a very dark shot with essentially a narrow range of dark greys/blacks, so you now have to decide if you want to deal with this through lighting, filters, or... Successful shooting in B&W requires a mental adjustment to train your mind to see things in an unnatural way and to account for them. It's not difficult, just requires a bit of practice and training.

 

[Compaq]

I sometimes wish I could see in black and white upon command, as contrasts, shadows, shapes and textures would be easier to see and compose. In black and white, everything is black, white or some tone of grey in-between. The thing that decides the grey tone is the brightness of the reflecting light, and so a green and a red thing could be rendered identically. That adds another aspect to it, being able to visualize colours in black and white when out shooting.

 

[CCericola]

Yeah I think Tirediron is right. When I first learned photography it was 35mm black and white film. It was cheaper to process and print. Then we moved to color processing and printing along with color theory and harmony. Now it is all digital so it seems the game has changed a bit. I do think learning on film does help you think more about what you are shooting. There is no chimping and no histograms.

 

[Rephargotohp]

Shooting for black & white "can" be more about Textural light, where as color "Can" be more about Tonal light

 

[zeppelin390]

Yeah I think Tirediron is right. When I first learned photography it was 35mm black and white film. It was cheaper to process and print. Then we moved to color processing and printing along with color theory and harmony. Now it is all digital so it seems the game has changed a bit. I do think learning on film does help you think more about what you are shooting. There is no chimping and no histograms.

.

I actually did start with a film camera, and purchasing B&W film. With the downfall of film photgraphy no places around here developed B&W, so I had to buy B&W film that could be developed in color chemicals. The photo's I got got back were horrible, everything was flat, and it just made bad pictures look worse.
So what characteristics do you guys think that B&W and color share? like composition, lighting...etc

 

[tirediron]

...I had to buy B&W film that could be developed in color chemicals.

What????? Do it yourself. A $50 investment off of Craig's List and another $50 to Adorama, B&H, or trip to your local camera store will get you all the chemicals and equipment you need to develop B&W film. It's easy- you can (I have) done it in your kitchen!

...So what characteristics do you guys think that B&W and color share? like composition, lighting...etc

Composition, absolutely. Lighting? Yes, but differently. Lighting a B&W scene can be very different from lighting a colour scene.

 

[DiskoJoe]

With bw you have different contrast issues then with color. Color will have more subtle contrast value due to gradiation where with bw you are working with a gray scale where these subtle changes are not so prominent. I really would say that it is best to learn one before the other but definitely a good idea to get familiar with how the two can vary and how editing wold vary.

 

[KmH]

Most will suggest always shooting in color then converting to B/W in post processing.

If you're using a digital camera.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Very interesting question.

And my short answer to it is that the fundamentals, although a good start, are not enough in the end. If you want to be VERY good that is. You will still be able to do very decent work without a super duper academic knowledge of colors because you will pick up some of that knowledge while shooting. If you are not blind. I didn't study color until I had 15 years of photography behind me. 15 years of 89% B&W and I was not impaired by my lack of knowledge but, then again, I was working for the printed media and so there were built-in limits to the quality anyway.

When I finally studied/learned colors my images definitely changed.

But, let's be honest here, the importance of color rendition is directly related to the type of photography you are doing.

I once had an interesting exchange with overread, if you know who he is, about the value of correct exposure versus the value of correct colors. overread does macro of insects and such and we talked about how the correct exposure is only so good as the colors of the animal are. Of course my point of view was only valid if you are shooting for an encyclopedia for scientists who identify animals by looks alone. If you are shooting for an encyclopedia for scientists who work more with life styles, the correct exposure may be more important.

Another way to put it is what I say when people mention shooting art works. Although I am both a painter and a photog, I do not shoot my own paintings for some catalogs. I just can't do it. Hell, yes, I'm not good enough.

Now, color accuracy is not that big a deal in B&W. What is is the right/correct placement of a certain color value within an image and color understanding is a big help. I have a couple books on the subject which I haven't looked at in years but keep anyway because, who knows?

As mentioned by Compaq, a red and a green could be rendered indentically in B&W. But that is forgetting that there are hundreds of greens and hundreds of reds. A color is way more than just a color. It is also an opacity value. It is also a reflectivity value. Etc.

Hope I'm not totally confusing you.

 

[naptime]

Yeah I think Tirediron is right. When I first learned photography it was 35mm black and white film. It was cheaper to process and print. Then we moved to color processing and printing along with color theory and harmony. Now it is all digital so it seems the game has changed a bit. I do think learning on film does help you think more about what you are shooting. There is no chimping and no histograms.

.

I actually did start with a film camera, and purchasing B&W film. With the downfall of film photgraphy no places around here developed B&W, so I had to buy B&W film that could be developed in color chemicals. The photo's I got got back were horrible, everything was flat, and it just made bad pictures look worse.
So what characteristics do you guys think that B&W and color share? like composition, lighting...etc

do it yourself.

my daughter and i have jsut gotten started in film as well.

i paid 50 bucks for all the chemicals and 10 rolls of film.

i got our developing tank on ebay for 25 bucks shipped.

a few bottles and measuring cups.

we just did our first rolls last week.

VERY easy.

 

[naptime]

i don't know how new you are to photography. but i learned very quickly last week the importance of understanding metering.

knowing about it, and understanding it.

the kid and i went out last week. we knew nothing about metering. didn't even know it was something we were supposed to do.

we both took an identical shot. differences.. i was kneeling down for mine. and she was standing tow feet to my left for hers.

we must have been focused on different things. her image has much more detail than mine. mine is very dark.

her's got great reviews. mine, eh, not so much.

same cameras. same lenses. same film. same shutter speed. same fstop. same day, right next to each other.

so yes, metering and what you focus on can play a huge roll for b&w.


mine:

Image8.tif by jaythomson, on Flickr

hers

Image3.tif by AThomson16, on Flickr

 

[enzodm]

Most will suggest always shooting in color then converting to B/W in post processing.

If you're using a digital camera.

... and more than a suggestion, is an obligation