Duo Considered the Olsen Twins of the White Nationalist Movement

['Daniel']

This is why pedophiles and murderors and sickos in general are let of often, when they DID do something wrong, and allowed to live even near their victims sometimes, now that is wrong, plain and simple.

I know id feel that someone was wrong is they killed anyone I know, despite the fact that they had a bad upringing, ive got to have a bad upbringing now because of that part of my life.

Sorry, the "Its how they are brought up" stuff that ticks me off, everyone is responsible for their own actions past the age of 10 - 12 and they cant blame anyone else unless it was physically and mentally impossible to not do it (e.g. someone picks the gun up for you and makes you fire, or tells you if you dont do it they will kill someone you love e.g.).

Sorry, my 10cence...

"mentally impossible to not do it "

Would you not class upbringing that heavily governs morales rationale etc as making something near mentally impossible? I believe what you said correct, people over the age of 10-12 are responsible for what they dop, that doesn't mean they can stop themselves doing somethnig bad.

It's probably near impossible to stop people murdering each other but it could be reduced alot by basic parentibng skills being enforced and just better upbringing for chilren. some people kill becone of congenital mental illness. So far we can't do anything about that but we can about mental illness that is brought about through envirnmental factors.

 

[jstuedle]

I also don't understand why people consider racial discrimination a bad thing. Now what I just said should not be taken out of context.

Do we not all discriminate? We make choices every day, that's discrimination. I discriminated against a Jew when I choose a Irish protestant to marry. Speaking of discrimination, I would probably have married that little Jewish girl if her grandfather had not taken a shot at me. He didn't want his granddaughter married to a Methodist. It's all discrimination. But racial discrimination is another whole animal. This all to often is a result of outright hate and human beings get hurt. Racial discrimination is wrong on it's own level, where Methodist discrimination was only almost murder.

Why are the things we think are morally wrong actually wrong? Definitive reasons.

Answer: There's no definitive reason, only because we have decided them to be that way.

Why is racial or sexual discrimination or any other form wrong? Who says some people aren't better than others?

I believe in the religion argument. Those 10 little rules have helped civilize us and strengthen society for a couple of thousand years. But another argument can be made that without morals, whole civilizations have collapsed under the weight of there own greed, selfishness and lawlessness. Without morals, we as members of a modern society would have no inner rules to govern right from wrong. Without morals as our guiding compass, personal responsibility for our own actions, polite discourse, individual rights and freedoms will go the way of the Roman Empire. The Americas and western Europe could be put back to the 6th century.

If it's wrong for Lynx and Lamb...and I do think it is wrong, albeit legal...then it's wrong for everyone. How about a little consistency ABC?

I could agree with that. If its wrong for these girls to spout hate and venom, then is it wrong for Louis Farrakhan to preach hate against whites and Jews? Is it OK for a Muslim cleric to preach death to America at a mosque in Detroit? Is it OK for an entertainer sing of "bust'in a cap" in a rival gang member? It's all hate speech, and in my mind it's all morally wrong. But for some reason some of this speech is accepted and some is shunned.

I can go on, but I think I had better stop before I get accused of spouting hate speech.

 

['Daniel']

Racial discrimination is wrong on it's own level,

But why? Why is it wrong?

I believe in the religion argument...The Americas and western Europe could be put back to the 6th century.

Hmm. Would you agree tht the 10 commandments are not neccesary for civilization? It's hard to go into this realm of the debate without starting to pick apart flaws in the bible so I will go no further.

 

[jstuedle]

Quote:
Racial discrimination is wrong on it's own level,


But why? Why is it wrong?

We as humans have a habit of hating those we don't understand. History is full of examples of hatred against peoples of differing religion, or differing sects within that religion, or nationalities or even opposing soccer teams. (There's something I just don't understand at all) With race, it is easy to spot someone of another color and spout hatred. We as a society have determined that it's wrong to discriminate, to hate one of another color. Because of the horrid past history of segregation in my country, we seem to feel the need to make white on black discrimination the worse of many evils. I personally think it's all wrong. In western Europe, maybe their laws and feelings are reflective of how they feel about our past history, I don't know.

Quote:
I believe in the religion argument...The Americas and western Europe could be put back to the 6th century.


Hmm. Would you agree tht the 10 commandments are not neccesary for civilization? It's hard to go into this realm of the debate without starting to pick apart flaws in the bible so I will go no further.

Like it or not, those 10 little rules are the basis for every successful and prosperous civilization in the last two centuries. We shouldn't kill, we shouldn't break contracts (lie), and so on. We are drifting away from that foundation when we blame others on our problems like I hear said about these girls. Or when we believe society can prosper and grow without the bond of two people who procreate. If we talk about the bible, yes it has flaws. It was written by humans, just like every written document. People are not perfect and flaws can be debated all day. Just not here.

 

[tmpadmin]

:cheers: to jstuedle.

 

['Daniel']

Well I think people hating stuff they don't understand is an interpretation. my theory is it's that the people are different and it's really only an instincutal genetic thing.

Like it or not, those 10 little rules are the basis for every successful and prosperous civilization in the last two centuries.

I have to disagree with this.

China is a key example. In the last 2000 years they have been very prosperous and were one of the most advanced civilizations and it looks like it's going that way again.

I also don't think that you can class the bible/christiaity as the reason that civilizations hae been succesful.

I am an atheist but I do agree that the ten commandments are good moral guidelines to live buy(the ones not to do with god and honouring god etc). Looking at it from a purely non religious point of view. The debate over if it's the word of god is irrelevant.

 

[Andrea K]

This is why pedophiles and murderors and sickos in general are let of often, when they DID do something wrong, and allowed to live even near their victims sometimes, now that is wrong, plain and simple.

I know id feel that someone was wrong is they killed anyone I know, despite the fact that they had a bad upringing, ive got to have a bad upbringing now because of that part of my life.

Sorry, the "Its how they are brought up" stuff that ticks me off, everyone is responsible for their own actions past the age of 10 - 12 and they cant blame anyone else unless it was physically and mentally impossible to not do it (e.g. someone picks the gun up for you and makes you fire, or tells you if you dont do it they will kill someone you love e.g.).

Sorry, my 10cence...

i'd like to simply disagree with you on this one. i agree with the fact that people blame their parents and their upbringing for their crimes or w/e they are being reprimanded for. however, don't overlook the power of the situation (i've recently learned about this in psychology class). do you think that all those nazi soldiers were crazy and mentally screwed up, i dont, maybe some but not all (please don't misunderstand me. i am NOT condoning what any of them did). it was the power of the situation, there was Hitler and all of his followers, how can you do anything but follow along out of sheer obedience of an authority figure.

here is where i make reference to Milgram's obedience study. in a nutshell he had one person be a "teacher" and in another room he had the "student." the teacher would tell a list of something for the student to memorize and each time the student messed up the teacher was to click a button to send a shock to the student. as the student continued to mess up, the shocks became stronger and stronger (the teacher knew that the shocks were getting stronger as the buttons for each shock were labeled, the last shock being labeled XXX). the only person in the room with the teacher was the scientist. milgram found that some of the "teachers" (random people who answered a classified ad) protested to shocking the student (the teacher could hear the screams of pain from the student who was part of the experiemnt and was only acting) but when they told the scientist to stop, the scientist simply said "the experiment must continue." in the end, he found that nearly 65% of the teachers (remember, random ordinary people) had hit the last shock...the fatal one...simply primarily because of the authority figure (the scientist) asking them to continue the study

therefore, to connect this with the little girls about whom this thread was created, who are we to say how we would act with a parent or both parents (probably the main authoritative figures and in many cases the most respected authoritative figures) consistently telling us what to believe and what to do. at the age of 9 (i believe that was the age they started performing) were you able to stand up to your parents (not having any other outside influence like a school experience with different ideas and values) and tell them that what they were doing was wrong and hateful. therefore, before you start saying that they should know what is right and wrong take a look at their situation.

once again, i don't condone what they (the two girls) do but i do see how they have been brainwashed or pressured into having the thoughts and feelings that they do have however perverted these thoughts may be.

 

[JonMikal]

as you know, religion and politics are not condoned as discussion in this forum.

i'm not going to close this thread because it hasn't completely gotten out of hand, but then again, i really don't see where else it can go. i'll leave it just in case.

my decision is not up for debate. consider this your only warning!

 

[bace]

Speaking of authority figures...

*gets a shock*

OUCH!!!