ETTR questions

[Evertking]

I'm getting more comfortable with my camera and been playing around trying to get the perfect exposure. It's seem to me though that I have better luck if I underexpose my image and then bring up the shadows if I'm using iso 100. But this goes against all that I have seen on fourms and YouTube. Maybe I'm not doing something right?
If I was going to ETTR, I take and spot meter the brightest part, take the image and check my histogram and if I have more room to push the histogram to the right, bump up my exposure and so on and so on...
I have been using iso 100 and getting the exposure dead center and maybe going down a 1/2 a stop. But then again what do I know?
Going on a winter camping trip to the mountains and want to take the best images that I can. I use a Canon 6D.
So if anyone can help me out would be awesome. Maybe I am doing the ETTR wrong or misunderstood it.

 

[Derrel]

Newer, better digital SLR sensors make ETTR much,much,much less of a necessity that was the case a decade and a half ago, when the ETTR mantra was pretty much gospel. Ever since the advent of the Sony EXMOR-generation sensors, ETTR has been less and less a necessity for quality images. Some sensors now, the ISO invariant ones, can be severely under-exposed in the field, and nearly-black frames can be "lifted" in software, from useless frames, to pretty decent pictures.

In point of fact, deliberately under-exposing, in order to protect the highlights from being over-exposed, and thus creating a somewhat "dark-looking" out of camera exposure level, and then in post-processing, "lifting" and adjusting that image to look proper is--with newer sensor designs, a perfectly acceptable, and a possibly beneficial, way to expose some scenes!

dPreview did an article on that very issue, how to use the modern-era digital sensor cameras to do the opposite of ETTR! MANY on-line articles concerning ISO invariant cameras are on the internet. Here's just one ISO Invariance in the Canon EOS 5Ds R (Podcast 520) • Martin Bailey Photography

An excerpt from that states, "In a great article published on DPReview called “Sony Alpha 7R II: Real-World ISO Invariance Study” they share some test results which show that because the noise floor is so low in the Sony Alpha 7R II and Nikon D810 with its Sony sensor, it can actually be beneficial to keep your ISO down at 100 or 200, and photograph your scene much darker, and brighten it in post. This is basically the opposite to Exposing to the Right."
*******

So...there's that! I have accidental flash-did-not-fire-image-looks-black shots that are easily "liftable" in Lightroom...using the D610 and D800 cameras. But with my older cameras, a black, flash-did-not-fire-frame is utter rubbish when brightened up!

 

[Evertking]

Thanks, you answered all my questions! While my 6D is not a D810, I have noticed that if I just expose for the brightest spot in the sky and let the rest just fall where is may, I am able to get an amazing looking sky and still get the forground to look good.
It's been to cold where I am at to get out and take portraits. But say I have a subject outside and I exposed for the highlights in the backgroud, leaving the subject underexposed and then I use the strobe to get the proper exposure on her, the subject. -here is my question- Would I now need to underexpose my subject with the strobe a little bit since I will be lifting the shadows up on the image in post?
Hope that makes sense. I have worked 32 hours with about 4 hours of sleep.
Thanks for your quick reply.

 

[Ysarex85 79]

I'm getting more comfortable with my camera and been playing around trying to get the perfect exposure. It's seem to me though that I have better luck if I underexpose my image and then bring up the shadows if I'm using iso 100. But this goes against all that I have seen on fourms and YouTube. Maybe I'm not doing something right?
If I was going to ETTR, I take and spot meter the brightest part, take the image and check my histogram and if I have more room to push the histogram to the right, bump up my exposure and so on and so on...
I have been using iso 100 and getting the exposure dead center and maybe going down a 1/2 a stop. But then again what do I know?
Going on a winter camping trip to the mountains and want to take the best images that I can. I use a Canon 6D.
So if anyone can help me out would be awesome. Maybe I am doing the ETTR wrong or misunderstood it.

Very hard to argue with the points Derrel makes concerning modern cameras. Current sensors capture a lot of data if you're processing raw files. A lot of the earlier reasoning for ETTR is no longer so imperative. From what you describe, yeah it sounds like you're not clear on what to do. When you say you check your histogram you have to be referring to the review histogram of the camera JPEG after you've taken the shot -- that's not the way to approach "ETTR" -- damn I do not like that terminology.

When you refer to having better luck one way or the other how are you judging the results? Are you shooting and processing CR2 raw files and in what software?

Another way to think of the issue is simply that you're using your camera to collect data -- an exposure collects data. The more data the better. So more exposure = more data = better results. BUT that can be very risky because ultimately as you increase exposure you're going to reach the sensor clipping threshold. When you get involved in "ETTR" practice you have to embrace a level of precision with your exposures so you don't go running into that clipping threshold -- it really hurts.

So I make an effort for the most part to get a full sensor exposure -- that's what I like to call it. I've got a sensor and I'm going to use it and if I use all of it I get the best possible result. How much it matters? I still find it useful in high contrast light and otherwise it's hard for me to be deliberately sloppy. But as Derrel pointed out there's usually lots of room to lift shadow detail in an average lit scene.

To do that consistently -- get a full sensor exposure and not get burned too often you need to test your hardware. Can't imagine living without RawDigger. That's how you determine how well your sensor is exposed. Back and forth between the camera meter and then an analysis of the results.

Joe