exposure comp on a cloudy day for wildlife.

[SCraig]

... so the light meter bar reads dead center which should technically be a properly exposed image...

Not necessarily. That's why I posted the link to understanding how metering works.

The meter in the camera is going to calculate an exposure for the sampled area (which varies depending on the metering mode being used) that would be a proper exposure IF the area is neutral gray. If the sampling area has a large area of solid color (i.e. sky, water, grass, pavement, etc.) the exposure will virtually always be wrong.

 

[dannylightning]

using exp. comp. doesn't really make sense unless you are using auto-iso.

...That's why I posted the link to understanding how metering works.

The meter in the camera is going to calculate an exposure for the sampled area (which varies depending on the metering mode being used) that would be a proper exposure IF the area is neutral gray. If the sampling area has a large area of solid color (i.e. sky, water, grass, pavement, etc.) the exposure will virtually always be wrong.

i said earlier there is no reason to use exposure comp in full manual mode, but there was a question about what changes in the camera when you use exposure comp, i though that might explain how it works. i know the lens require allot of light but i am trying to work with it in lousy lightning anyways. it seems to do alright for the most part i just got to figure out what is going to get me the best exposure with in bad lighting..

i never saw a link to the metering, when people embed the link in text i guess you call it, that always throws me off and i often don't notice it., ill go back and find the link, thanks... metering is something i have never really read up on..

 

[dannylightning]

the question about my camera and ISO 6400 being too high. here is a photo that was taken at 6400 iso. it has a bit of noise but i think its still acceptable, now if you get a under exposed photo at ISO 6400 and fix it up that will cause some issues with noise.

 

[JacaRanda]

Hi Danny,

I think you are expecting to understand several things without taking the time to read and fully understand how those things work. There are no real shortcuts unless you want to continue to get frustrated by trial and error.

I posted in one of your other threads something about reading the doggone manual. I honestly think if you slow down, take the time to read either the full manual or at least browse through the table of contents so that you can focus on the specific sections dealing with your issues; you would gain a better understanding. I'm guessing that Nikon does at least equally as well in their manual as Canon does.

If you are not one of those people that has the patience to read the manual - take the time to practice using your camera on still subjects (leave the birds alone for a while). Set a stuffed animal or beer can (whatever) up somewhere in your yard and practice shooting it. I would suggest in manual mode, F8, 1/1000 and auto ISO as you seem to like. Take a shot in each metering mode while checking the histogram after each time (read your manual to show you how to get to and read the histogram - IT'S IMPORTANT). If the majority of information in your histogram is to the left of center, then use positive exposure compensation to push it towards the right (If your camera allows you to use exposure compensation while in manual). That should increase the ISO only. You may also decrease the shutter speed instead of using exposure compensation. However, note that when you are shooting at a real bird, decreasing the shutter speed will negate some of the reason you chose that speed initially.

Make sure you place your teddy bear in a shaded area for one set of shots, and then in a backlit area for the next set of shots (again switching the metering mode each time). Study each shot in each scenario on the camera lcd, and again when you load them into Lightroom. Make sure LR has the overlay preview information with shutter speed, ISO and aperture showing.

I keep saying there are no shortcuts, but.........I truly believe reading the manual is actually a shortcut.

Oh - btw, my own little thought about exposure compensation is ---- whatever the predominant shade is in my scene, I move exposure towards it. So if my Egret is surrounded mostly by dark water or dark background (trees, grass, bushes etc.) then I move my exposure compensation towards the negative. If my Raven is against a bright sky (backlit) then I use positive exposure compensation.

 

[Malavok]

i just recently got the D7200 so i am still learning the camera, ill have to figure out how find the histogram..

This is what I do with my 7200:

Go into playback mode to where you're viewing a single picture. Click up or down on the multi-selector. Now you have a little histogram that shows up in the preview immediately after taking the image. It's great for fast adjustments to exposure comp.

You can add additional information by going to the playback menu (first menu), then playback display options.

 

[dannylightning]

Hi Danny,

I think you are expecting to understand several things without taking the time to read and fully understand how those things work. There are no real shortcuts unless you want to continue to get frustrated by trial and error.

I posted in one of your other threads something about reading the doggone manual. I honestly think if you slow down, take the time to read either the full manual or at least browse through the table of contents so that you can focus on the specific sections dealing with your issues; you would gain a better understanding. I'm guessing that Nikon does at least equally as well in their manual as Canon does.

If you are not one of those people that has the patience to read the manual - take the time to practice using our camera on still subjects (leave the birds alone for a while). Set a stuffed animal or beer can (whatever) up somewhere in your yard and practice shooting it. I would suggest in manual mode, F8, 1/1000 and auto ISO as you seem to like. Take a shot in each metering mode while checking the histogram after each time (read your manual to show you how to get to and read the histogram - IT'S IMPORTANT). If the majority of information in your histogram is to the left of center, then use positive exposure compensation to push it towards the right (If your camera allows you to use exposure compensation while in manual). That should increase the ISO only. You may also decrease the shutter speed instead of using exposure compensation. However, note that when you are shooting at a real bird, decreasing the shutter speed will negate some of the reason you chose that speed initially.

Make sure you place your teddy bear in a shaded area for one set of shots, and then in a backlit area for the next set of shots (again switching the metering mode each time). Study each shot in each scenario on the camera lcd, and again when you load them into Lightroom. Make sure LR has the overlay preview information with shutter speed, ISO and aperture showing.

I keep saying there are no shortcuts, but.........I truly believe reading the manual is actually a shortcut.

Oh - btw, my own little thought about exposure compensation is ---- whatever the predominant shade is in my scene, I move exposure towards it. So if my Egret is surrounded mostly by dark water or dark background (trees, grass, bushes etc.) then I move my exposure compensation towards the negative. If my Raven is against a bright sky (backlit) then I use positive exposure compensation.

Thank you, I have read thew a manual, more like skimmed thew it. i am one of those people that never really read a manual, i just pick something up and learn to use it.. back when i got my first DSLR i read and read and read about it. it was the first thing i ever got where i had to really set and learn how to use it. i remember buying or getting a book by nikon that told you how to use everything. and i remember reading this here on nikons website.. Nikon | Imaging Products | DSLR Camera Basics . this was a long time ago and there was a long period of time where i did not own a DSLR till i got one again 1.5 maybe 2 years ago. i am going to read thew my manual more thorough and than i am going to start doing some more reading from that link aswell.. i though i knew my camera pretty well, but you are all making me feel like a NOOB again!!!!

i understand how to read a histogram.. i just refreshed my self on that one yesterday and i turned on the histogram in my camera yesterday, reading the in camera histogram never ever crossed my mind before so i am glad that was mentioned to me, i am gonna check that from now on. i ask these questions because i am having trouble and hope someone will point me to some info that is informative and i can understand. so far i think i have got some helpful info out of this thread so far.


i have tried your metering test with my D5300 when i first got it, i do not remember reading much about metering till yesterday and i realize spot metering was probably the wrong thing to be using, however i have done the metering test when shooting landscapes or a stationary object on a sunny day only, i did not really notice any difference between the 3 metering modes, the photos pretty much looked the same, maybe i was doing the test with the wrong type of subject and i only tried one type of lightning condition...

the other day had a lousy light when i went to shoot birds i had matrix metering set, the next time i went out on a lousy lit day i used spot metering. both of those settings seemed to give me underexposed images so i played with the exposure comp both days, i got some good photos and some bad photos both days. most of the time i look something like metering up and its a short article, only semi informative and tells you the very basics of the subject only or its just too technical for my brain to understand. but short and to me it seems like i only get the very basic understanding out of it.

as far as changing settings to get more light, with the new lens i can shoot it wide open, f/6.2 i think it is at 600mm and the images still look sharp but they do look better at F/8 so i try to stay there if i can. for shutter speed i really do not want to go less than 1/100 because when something moves i do get blur images at times, even at 1/1000 some times a flying bird has some wing blur going on, most of the time it does not but some times it does...

allot of the things i am shooting are not very close. so they do not take up the screen, when i get something that is close to me i get a good exposure, but a wood duck way out in the lake or a blue bird up in a tree is a different story on these types of days.

 

[JacaRanda]

allot of the things i am shooting are not very close. so they do not take up the screen, when i get something that is close to me i get a good exposure, but a wood duck way out in the lake or a blue bird up in a tree is a different story on these types of days.

This is always going to be the case and why you need to be able to adjust. Sometimes it won't be worth it. If your subject it too small in the scene, then the scene is probably more a landscape shot.

 

[Derrel]

Spot metering is good for slow, deliberate,careful,methodical work, but it is a very poor choice in many situations, especially fluid situations...spot metering is extremely dependent upon the exact object being measured, and it can lead to incredibly bad exposures at times. Nikon's center-weighted metering is a long-time staple that many Nikon users love; you can adjust the diameter of the center circle. Nikjon center-weighted average metering has traditionally been 60% of the meter reading based on the scribed, permanent 12mm circle on the viewfinder screen, then the remaining area of the entire image are accounting for a 40% bias. Center-weighted Average metering can be made more central by using the Custom Function menu; the choices on my cameras are 6mm, 8mm,10mm,13mm, and Center-weighted Average.

Matrix metering does a lot of analysis of distance, color of objects, focusing point in use,and overall scene component reflectance and color values. It is basically "automated light metering"; in most situations, the matrix reading will be pretty good, but not all scenes will be rendered perfectly.

I think that using Matrix metering in Manual mode is not a wise decision, but in Aperture priority auto, I will often use matrix.

As JacaRanda mentioned, on dark scenes, dialing in some MINUS Exposure Compensation (EC) makes a lot of sense, and in the case of snow or fog, I almost always dial in + 1.3 to +1.5 EC.

Basically, for backlighted birds on skimpy trees, you are likely going to want an EC "offset" into the Plus range; for shooting a portrait of a person standing in front of deeply shaded, green hedges 50 feet behind them with the dark hedges making up a lot of the total frame area, dialing in a Minus 1.3 to Minus 1.7 EC is typical on "wide-angle" shots.

When the lens focal length becomes very long, then the metering can become almost a semi-spot just by virtue of how little the meter actually "sees".

The more-selective the metering area is, the more that an exact aim and a very,very specific target becomes a necessity; for fast-changing, fluid scenes, where the "target" might move across the frame, and the frame has wildly different exposure values, the more likely it is that spot metering will lead to an utter cluster****. When the scene is very fluid, then it becomes helpful to sort of "put the governor on the meter" and go to a center-weighted or a matrix method, one that is not so prone to 10-EV differences with a 1-foot mis-aiming of the metering circle.

Again: the 12mm scribed circle in every Nikon factory screen delineates the center-weighted metering's main area! Learn to swing the meter around and watch the diodes move up or down as the meter's circle is moved around the scene. years ago, I spent a lot of time measuring and shooting a single, 60-watt lightbulb on an extension light, against a plain, white wall...it's very instructive toward helping you learn to mentally map out the Nikon center-weighted average metering's "computer brain" way of thinking.

 

[dannylightning]

well i just went out and played with the camera, i shot tree branches in different types of lightning in all 3 metering modes to see how the exposure and detail in the tree bark would look.

spot metering was very inconsistent and often had blow out highlights, between matrix and center weighted were both darker so i put the exposure comp to +1 and i was getting photos that were exposed about right for the lighting i was shooting in , i noticed very little difference between those 2 metering settings. i know some wild life photographers like center weighted, i guess ill stick to that one for a while and see how it works out.

i decided to try out some hither ISO so i set it to 16000 and found a squirrell in the dark shade, the camera needed to use all 16000 iso for the photo, its a bit noisy in the background but the subject looks pretty good considering. i shot him in all different metering modes too, than he dropped his nut and ran out of the tree to find it.

 

[Derrel]

Yeah, spot metering can easily provide wildly inconsistent exposures in fluid situations--because basically ALL of the meter's influence is concentrated in one, small, small area of the overall frame! Center-weighted and Matrix metering with modern Nikon d-slr cameras works very well most of the time. Your squirrel shot actually looks pretty good! It is simply amazing how well the new Nikons can do at very high ISO settings.

 

[dannylightning]

I appreciate all the information.. its been helpful.. its quite impressive how these new nikons do with high ISO, my friends D90 cant handle high ISO at all, my old D60 i think it was did not either. cameras have come a long way..

there is one thing i have read about and just cant seem to grasp when it comes to auto ISO, the minimum shutter speed setting in the ISO sensitivity menu.. the default is set to auto so that is where i have left it. a few people have tried to explain that to me before but i just cant seem to get it. can anyone give me a explanation for a dummy on that setting ??

 

[soufiej]

well i just went out and played with the camera, i shot tree branches in different types of lightning in all 3 metering modes to see how the exposure and detail in the tree bark would look.

spot metering was very inconsistent and often had blow out highlights, between matrix and center weighted were both darker so i put the exposure comp to +1 and i was getting photos that were exposed about right for the lighting i was shooting in , i noticed very little difference between those 2 metering settings. i know some wild life photographers like center weighted, i guess ill stick to that one for a while and see how it works out.

i decided to try out some hither ISO so i set it to 16000 and found a squirrell in the dark shade, the camera needed to use all 16000 iso for the photo, its a bit noisy in the background but the subject looks pretty good considering. i shot him in all different metering modes too, than he dropped his nut and ran out of the tree to find it.View attachment 110122

I can't help with specifics of the Nikon.

Canon here all the way, you know.

However, I mentioned awhile back you might want to employ HDR techniques in either the camera or the processing. HDR in camera is likely to fail when shooting moving or potentially moving subjects - and, honestly, if I see another photo of another dead bird ...

Have you given any consideration to trying HDR in your processing to allow for more DR in your final product and a lot more leeway in your shooting technique?

Do keep that histogram in your LCD or viewfinder. It can be a lifesaver.

 

[JacaRanda]

Some would rather blow the highlights and get the subject exposed close to right and live with it. I would have done the test with something other than tree branches but oh well. At some point after you play, practice, shoot enough you will begin to figure out what works best for you in different conditions. Knowing what metering mode works best in each situation is part of it.

 

[dannylightning]

Dead bird ???? I think HDR is cool but I am not really looking to do HDR with wildlife.

I did testing with more than just branches, the moon was out, weather vain on someone's roof, tree leaves, and a few other random things in the back yard. It was what was easily available at the moment. I plan to do more metering testing in the future.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

 

[Derrel]

there is one thing i have read about and just cant seem to grasp when it comes to auto ISO, the minimum shutter speed setting in the ISO sensitivity menu.. the default is set to auto so that is where i have left it. a few people have tried to explain that to me before but i just cant seem to get it. can anyone give me a explanation for a dummy on that setting ??

Not familiar with your camera specifically, but my guess is that Auto regulation reads the CPU information from the lens to establish some kind of something like a "twice the focal length" minimum speed with short focal length lenses, and perhaps a 2.5x to 3.0x the focal length minimum speed with longer focal lengths. For example, with a 15-30mm lens, hand-holding is possible at 1/15 second, quite easily, and due to low image magnification of the subjects, at a speed like 1/30, any blurring that there is will be relatively minimally visible on most subjects. However, with longer focal lengths, like say 200mm to 300mm, there is higher magnification of most subjects, and so blurring due to camera shake AND blurring due to subject motion blur are both much,much more of a real possibility.

Manual, user-set minimum speed allows YOU some important input; if you are shooting say, almost static, grazing elk with a 400mm lens set to f/6.3, there's not a lot of need for ultra-short shutter speeds to prevent motion blur, so the need for a really short speed, like say 1/1000 to 1/1250 second, is simply NOT a factor, and by setting the minimum speed slower, like say to 1/400 second, you will keep the ISO value significantly LOWER.

If OTOH, you are shooting FAST action, you might want to set a floor below which the camera will not drop, and thus cause too much blurring to occur, say the slowest possible speed MUST NEVER be allowed to go below say 1/640 second, even if the lens in use is short, because for example, say you plan to crop deeply images shot with a 50mm lens; the lens's own EXIF reporting might lead the automatic setting to think that, okay, 50mm lens, 2x to 3x the focal length will be fine! ANd it might be...but then again..it might not be, so you, the user, can manually determine what the slowest possible speed should ever be allowed to be.