Film iso rating versus camera ability

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Ive been curious on the following for a bit as NO one really tries to explain it outside of the digital world.

When you have a camera film that says 800 to 3200 ISO, but your camera only goes up to 16-1800. Just what is going to happen when you use it, even at 16-1800 ISO for the cameras metering system?


Ill explain, the Eos Elan 2 will let you set a film ISO anywhere from 40 to 6400. But if you have a camera that only goes up to 1600 ISO,,,, isn't shooting the film as a lower iso simply going to have the same effect as controlling the Exposure Value to -2 stops?
 
Ive been curious on the following for a bit as NO one really tries to explain it outside of the digital world.

When you have a camera film that says 800 to 3200 ISO, but your camera only goes up to 16-1800. Just what is going to happen when you use it, even at 16-1800 ISO for the cameras metering system?


Ill explain, the Eos Elan 2 will let you set a film ISO anywhere from 40 to 6400. But if you have a camera that only goes up to 1600 ISO,,,, isn't shooting the film as a lower iso simply going to have the same effect as controlling the Exposure Value to -2 stops?

With film, not digital, setting an ISO value on the film camera's meter that is lower than the ISO of the film, eg. set 1600 on camera when film is 6400, that is equivalent to setting a +2 stop exposure comp.

Setting -2 EC in that scenario would in fact be equivalent to setting the camera at ISO 6400 if that were available.

Joe
 
There are a couple of ways to mimic actual ASA/ISO of the film in a camera that is limited to 1800.

First off 3200 is one stop faster than 1600 so you could simply find the correct exposure in the camera meter at 1600 ISO and stop down by one stop which should equal your films 3200 ISO speed.

Secondly, if the camera has an Auto mode, you may also have a +/- EV dial or setting in which case you can simply dial in the value to correct for the faster film, which would be +1.0 EV.

However, I would caution you on one aspect, ASA and ISO are not completely interchangeable. ASA was a standard in the film days and for pretty much every film camera, when you set the actual ASA it didn't really matter which camera you loaded the film into. ISO on the other hand, although considered an international standard isn't actually respected between many camera brands today. ISO 200 in a Fujifilm X-t1 is not going to produce the same histogram in a Nikon D850, keeping all exposure and ISO settings identical and shooting a known control target.
 
There are a couple of ways to mimic actual ASA/ISO of the film in a camera that is limited to 1800.

First off 3200 is one stop faster than 1600 so you could simply find the correct exposure in the camera meter at 1600 ISO and stop down by one stop which should equal your films 3200 ISO speed.

Secondly, if the camera has an Auto mode, you may also have a +/- EV dial or setting in which case you can simply dial in the value to correct for the faster film, which would be +1.0 EV.

However, I would caution you on one aspect, ASA and ISO are not completely interchangeable. ASA was a standard in the film days and for pretty much every film camera, when you set the actual ASA it didn't really matter which camera you loaded the film into. ISO on the other hand, although considered an international standard isn't actually respected between many camera brands today. ISO 200 in a Fujifilm X-t1 is not going to produce the same histogram in a Nikon D850, keeping all exposure and ISO settings identical and shooting a known control target.

The comment about digital ISO and it being respected between camera brands is off-topic for the OP. It's also incorrect. The camera manufacturers helped write the newer digital ISO standard and are all compliant with the standard.

Joe
 
There are a couple of ways to mimic actual ASA/ISO of the film in a camera that is limited to 1800.

First off 3200 is one stop faster than 1600 so you could simply find the correct exposure in the camera meter at 1600 ISO and stop down by one stop which should equal your films 3200 ISO speed.

Secondly, if the camera has an Auto mode, you may also have a +/- EV dial or setting in which case you can simply dial in the value to correct for the faster film, which would be +1.0 EV.

However, I would caution you on one aspect, ASA and ISO are not completely interchangeable. ASA was a standard in the film days and for pretty much every film camera, when you set the actual ASA it didn't really matter which camera you loaded the film into. ISO on the other hand, although considered an international standard isn't actually respected between many camera brands today. ISO 200 in a Fujifilm X-t1 is not going to produce the same histogram in a Nikon D850, keeping all exposure and ISO settings identical and shooting a known control target.

Iso 6400 is 2 stops above 1600, not 1.

3200 would be one stop.
 
The comment about digital ISO and it being respected between camera brands is off-topic for the OP. It's also incorrect. The camera manufacturers helped write the newer digital ISO standard and are all compliant with the standard.

Joe

I beg to differ on your assertion. Do some research on how different brands handle ISO then get back to me. For the record I have owned several brands and very few of them actually produce the same exposure at a given ISO.

The OP has changed the topic and removed ASA, that is why I commented on it.
 
Iso 6400 is 2 stops above 1600, not 1.

3200 would be one stop.

You are right however the OP was using 3200 as the film speed which is what I based my response to.
 
The comment about digital ISO and it being respected between camera brands is off-topic for the OP. It's also incorrect. The camera manufacturers helped write the newer digital ISO standard and are all compliant with the standard.

Joe

I beg to differ on your assertion. Do some research on how different brands handle ISO then get back to me. For the record I have owned several brands and very few of them actually produce the same exposure at a given ISO.

That doesn't mean they're not ISO standards compliant. You're assuming that if two different brands (eg. Fuji and Nikon) produce different exposures at a given ISO value that one or both of them is not adhering to the standard. That would be a faulty assumption. I have done the research.

Look at the EXIF data for a Fuji and Nikon camera and find the entry for Sensitivity Type. Nikon will list REI while Fuji will list SOS. That explains the discrepancy you're identifying and also identifies both manufactures as ISO standard compliant.

Joe

The OP has changed the topic and removed ASA, that is why I commented on it.
 
I never did mention ASA values.... just ISO.

Its an odd question for me because when Canon EOS SLRs came out with 50-6400 ISO selection, the highest rated film was 3200 ISO. And those cameras had +/- EV of 2 full stops in half increments it makes me wonder WHY bother with one of those two options...
 
I never did mention ASA values.... just ISO.

Its an odd question for me because when Canon EOS SLRs came out with 50-6400 ISO selection, the highest rated film was 3200 ISO. And those cameras had +/- EV of 2 full stops in half increments it makes me wonder WHY bother with one of those two options...
The +/-EV allows you to offset the meter setting on Auto setting. For example, you're shooting TMAX 400 (ISO400). The camera is set manually or automatically in some cameras to ISO 400 to match the film. Now you're out in the snow, The meter will be faked out for middle gray about 1-2 stops. So you offset it in the camera by changing the +/-EV offset +1 or +1.5 stops. The meter will correct for the bright snow shot. But you don;t change the ISO setting for the camera. That stay the same as the film's ISO. AFter all., the next shot may be where there's no snow, so you want to keep the nominal ISO setting of the film.
 
With film the ASA or ISO is fixed for images taken on the film loaded in the camera. If the camera has an ISO range of 16-1800, then just set the ISO for the film that you are loading into the camera. You might have a film that is ISO 800 and can be pushed to ISO 3200 - either by setting the camera ISO to 3200 or by setting your exposure as if the camera was set to ISO 3200 (take the 800 ISO meter reading and change it by two stops - or set camera at 1600 ISO and change settings by one stop). If you just plan to use the ISO 800 film at its normal speed then just set the camera to ISO 800 and shoot the roll of film - you are not going to be changing ISO while shooting this roll of film.
 
Back in the day before 1600 film, I ownd several Nikon's which had built in meters that went up to 6400.

Light meters used to have ASA settings that were far above the fastest films of the day in which they were manufactured.

I remember back in the day thinking that there was no way we would ever have film or take pictures at ASA / ISO levels as high as 3200... it's amazing what 45 years will do.
 
Hi I have used film in the past, and had films there were not in range of my light meter. I made myself a graph on a post card to work out the adjustments.
 
The way I'm reading the OP's questions and comments, I feel like he thinks he's adjusting the film's response by the setting on the camera. Just to be clear, the setting on the camera sets the meter's calculation, not the actual exposure sensitivity of the film.

In a digital camera, if you take two shots at 1/125 and f:4, one at ISO 100 and one at ISO 3200, you'll get two different exposures. In the film camera, if you shoot those two same exposures, with the shutter and aperture manually set, the camera's ASA setting is irrelevant. You can set it for 100 and you can set it for 3200. if the camera's shutter and aperture settings are fixed my setting manually, the meter setting makes no change.

All the film camera's ASA setting does is control the calculated exposure for an auto-exposed shot. If the camera is aperture priority (older Nikons, Minoltas, etc.) the meter figures out what the shutter speed is, and if it's set less than the film's actual ASA you'll get an overexposed image. If the camera is shutter-priority, like Canon's AE-1, then you set the shutter and the meter calculates aperture. Again, setting the meter's ASA to less than the film's rating will give you an overexposure; the camera is calculating for a less sensitive film.

If you have a film that is outside the camera's range, and the camera has a compensation dial, then you can set for the difference. Use 3200 film in a camera that only meters up to ASA 1600, set the exposure compensation to 1 stop under, and the camera will expose correctly by the meter reading.
 
Nothing like forgetting what film you have in the camera. More than once I rewound film so I could open the camera back and see what I had started. Must not have been the only one to have done this as cameras started coming out with the film box top holder as a built-in feature.
 

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