First flash setup and "shoot"

[sam_justice]

Still waiting on my softbox to arrive but the remotes and stand arrived so I decided to break it out.

Subjects were my sister and her baby. Here's the setup -

And here's two I liked, the hard thing wasn't getting the right light, it was getting the pose! These were the only two I like. Please PLEASE C&C on the lighting and setup.

 

[tirediron]

It's a little difficult to provide really effective critique on this as we're not able to get a really good look at the faces (where lighting is most critical in portraiture). What I can see appears fine, albeit slightly flat.

 

[sam_justice]

It's a little difficult to provide really effective critique on this as we're not able to get a really good look at the faces (where lighting is most critical in portraiture). What I can see appears fine, albeit slightly flat.

Yeh it does feel vert flat imo, is that due to the lighting or depth of field?

 

[tirediron]

Due primarily to the fact that your lighting is too even. It's very diffuse, and free of any shadows which also means it doesn't appear to have any real depth to it. Just so that I understand, you used one light subject left at 90 degrees?

 

[edouble]

I suggest a reshoot with your sister only. Your sister could hold a pose for you without attending to her child. I think this would make things much easier for you.

 

[Big Mike]

Are you using an Omnibounce or something similar on the flash head?

[Rant]
It's doing nothing in this situation, but making your flash work harder than in needs to.
To make light softer, you need to enlarge the source (relative to the subject) or you need to move it closer to the subject. All that thing does is spread the light around, and when outdoors, most of it is wasted.
[/rant]

The 'flatness' of light has to do with the angle/position of the light and the ratio. As mentioned, we usually look at the subject's face to see the lighting ratio...the ratio between the bright side and the shadow side. Your main or 'key' light usually lights up the bright side and then you use fill light to control the ratio. In this case, you could use your flash as the key light and the ambient light is your fill.

Try the flash at 45 degrees to your subject. You can move it around as you see fit, but at that angle, you should be able to see the ratio and where the light & shadow meet.

Try taking down the ambient exposure a touch, thus making the background (and fill) a little bit darker. This will help to give you a deeper ratio and thus less 'flat' lighting.

This is one reason why having a flash meter is great. You can measure the ambient light, measure the key light, measure the fill light etc. And you can then decide precisely what ratio you want to use. For a portrait like this, you probably don't want too much of a ratio...but for something more dramatic, you would use a deeper ratio.

And yes, all the lighting set up & knowledge won't do much if you can't get them to pose. That's why the best photographers know their lighting so well that it's just 2nd nature and they can then concentrate on working the subjects.

 

[gsgary]

With the Omnibounce fitted light is going all over the place and not where it is needed

 

[sam_justice]

Are you using an Omnibounce or something similar on the flash head?

[Rant]
It's doing nothing in this situation, but making your flash work harder than in needs to.
To make light softer, you need to enlarge the source (relative to the subject) or you need to move it closer to the subject. All that thing does is spread the light around, and when outdoors, most of it is wasted.
[/rant]

The 'flatness' of light has to do with the angle/position of the light and the ratio. As mentioned, we usually look at the subject's face to see the lighting ratio...the ratio between the bright side and the shadow side. Your main or 'key' light usually lights up the bright side and then you use fill light to control the ratio. In this case, you could use your flash as the key light and the ambient light is your fill.

Try the flash at 45 degrees to your subject. You can move it around as you see fit, but at that angle, you should be able to see the ratio and where the light & shadow meet.

Try taking down the ambient exposure a touch, thus making the background (and fill) a little bit darker. This will help to give you a deeper ratio and thus less 'flat' lighting.

This is one reason why having a flash meter is great. You can measure the ambient light, measure the key light, measure the fill light etc. And you can then decide precisely what ratio you want to use. For a portrait like this, you probably don't want too much of a ratio...but for something more dramatic, you would use a deeper ratio.

And yes, all the lighting set up & knowledge won't do much if you can't get them to pose. That's why the best photographers know their lighting so well that it's just 2nd nature and they can then concentrate on working the subjects.

Fantastic thanks for that, this is why I love this forum! I want to be able to get to know lighting inside out and this is my first ever attempt. I don't have any subjects around so but I have a remote so I will try taking pics of myself and post them.

 

[Big Mike]

Yes, it can be a challenge when you don't have someone who is willing to sit there for a long time while you fiddle with your lighting.

Rather than practice on yourself, I'd suggest getting a stand-in....a mannequin or a just one of those wig-stand heads. Heck, even a doll or teddy bear will do...as long as it's 3 dimensional like a real subject. Put the stand-in in place and put the camera on a tripod if you can. With those two things stationary and constant, you can concentrate on moving the light around and learn the difference it makes.

 

[sam_justice]

Yes, it can be a challenge when you don't have someone who is willing to sit there for a long time while you fiddle with your lighting.

Rather than practice on yourself, I'd suggest getting a stand-in....a mannequin or a just one of those wig-stand heads. Heck, even a doll or teddy bear will do...as long as it's 3 dimensional like a real subject. Put the stand-in in place and put the camera on a tripod if you can. With those two things stationary and constant, you can concentrate on moving the light around and learn the difference it makes.

Unfortunately I couldn't find either a teddy or mannequin in my boring house, but took a few. Overall I like the lighting when it's quite high up, but it casts a nasty shadow underneath the chin. Is the only way to get rid of this by using a reflector?

 

[Big Mike]

Unfortunately I couldn't find either a teddy or mannequin in my boring house, but took a few. Overall I like the lighting when it's quite high up, but it casts a nasty shadow underneath the chin. Is the only way to get rid of this by using a reflector?

Yes, higher light usually looks more natural because it looks more like sunlight. As for the shadow, yes, you can use a reflector under the subject to bounce some light back under the chin. Look up 'clam shell' lighting.

Also, consider that the harshness of the shadow has to do with the hardness of the light and the ratio. The light is hard, so the shadow line is a hard, well defined line. With a bigger light source, the shadow line is a softer transition and won't look as bad.
And because you don't have a fill light, either reflector or another light, the ratio is pretty big, which makes for a very dark shadow.

On the 45 degree shots, you can clearly see the ratio across your face. The shadow side is pretty dark, but not all the way dark. You are probably getting some bounce off of a wall on that side. You can control the amount of 'bounce fill' by moving closer to or farther from the wall on that side. This is helpful to know for many situations. You can create a ratio on a model's face, simply by putting them close to an object that either reflects or absorbs light.

 

[sam_justice]

Also, consider that the harshness of the shadow has to do with the hardness of the light and the ratio. The light is hard, so the shadow line is a hard, well defined line. With a bigger light source, the shadow line is a softer transition and won't look as bad.
And because you don't have a fill light, either reflector or another light, the ratio is pretty big, which makes for a very dark shadow.

On the 45 degree shots, you can clearly see the ratio across your face. The shadow side is pretty dark, but not all the way dark. You are probably getting some bounce off of a wall on that side. You can control the amount of 'bounce fill' by moving closer to or farther from the wall on that side. This is helpful to know for many situations. You can create a ratio on a model's face, simply by putting them close to an object that either reflects or absorbs light.

So what is reasonable ratio? Something that would be used for say editorial prints. I edited one of the shots in PS quick aside from my other shoulder not in frame I personally think this is well lit. Aside from the shadow under my chin. What do you think? Be as harsh as possible!

 

[Big Mike]

So what is reasonable ratio?

Completely depends on what you want to do.
Portrait Photography Lighting - photography light ratios

I edited one of the shots in PS quick aside from my other shoulder not in frame I personally think this is well lit. Aside from the shadow under my chin. What do you think? Be as harsh as possible!

Another thing you need to consider, when shooting portraits, is the pose and/or angle of the subject to the camera. Having your model sitting square and facing the camera, is rarely the best option.

In this case, I don't like the hard side lighting, deep ratio and the straight on pose. It creates a very defined nose shadow which takes up a lot of space on the face. (the shadow, not the nose :er: )

This is one reason why is soft light is nice, it's more forgiving of your shadow placement.

One thing to watch for, when placing your subject & light, is where the catch light shows up...which is why it's so much harder without a model or stand in. At first, shoot for the catch light to be at either 10:00 or 2:00.
I think you are pretty close here, but I'd still suggest bringing the light around closer to the camera and raising it up a bit. You don't want the nose shadow to intrude into the eye.

If I were shooting, I'd have you turn to your right (our left)...thus hiding some of the lit side of your face, which is called 'short' lighting. If you turn enough so that the nose shadow meets up with the cheek shadow, leaving a triangle of light, it would be called 'Rembrandt' lighting.

It might be helpful for you to look up some of the basic portrait lighting terms/styles etc. Things like short lighting vs broad lighting. Loop, Rembrandt, split, butterfly etc.
Learn what these basic lighting styles look like and learn how to achieve them.
You don't have to use a specific one each time you shoot...but learning how to do them will be extremely beneficial.

I think it's probably good that you only have one light right now (or are only using one). That is a great way to learn. Too many people start with two, three or four lights, which can make it more complicated to learn the basics.

I'd

 

[Geaux]

Where did you purchase your stand at? And for how much?

 

[kundalini]

On your next sequence of test shots, try having the light at 45° from camera and pointing at you at 45° above. Place the light just out of frame and knock down the power to 1/8 to 1/4. Having the light closer to the subject increases its size and offers a softer light, which also requires less power to light. Place a reflector of some sort opposite the main light to draw detail on the shadow side. Report back to us.