first published photo lol

SrBiscuit · Apr 29, 2009

so my buddy works for an ad agency in NY, and called me in a panic a month ago...

"dude, you have a tattoo machine right?"
"yeah"
"any chance you could shoot some pics of you holding it like youre tattooing?"
"sure man"

apparently they had an M&M ad that they needed to get finalized the next day and they didnt have time to find a hand model with a tattoo machine...so he called me.

so this is a pretty bad picture taken in my basement in front of a makeshift greenscreen. they cropped it the way they saw fit and added it to their layout.
so now my hand is famous. :lol:

so far it;s been in Family Circle, People (the one with the cover story "Med Student Murder"), and yesterdays Boston Metro...we'll see who else decides to put it in their mag.

this is a scan from Family Circle.

Seefutlung · Apr 29, 2009

So you're a lefty?

SrBiscuit · Apr 29, 2009

well no, so it was weird to hold the machine with my left hand...they had given me a comp to show me what angle i should try to hit, and the comp made it clear that the tattoo machine would be coming from the left.
i guess i could shot my right hand and flipped it.

inTempus · Apr 29, 2009

That's cool man!

Sw1tchFX · Apr 29, 2009

Out of curiosity, since this is in more then one publication, how did you set up the rights and payment? Is it something like 5 cents per publication printed? or is it just like $200 for everything and they can use it as much as they want whenever they want? I'm just curious how you set this up with them for something like this.

Photoadder · Apr 29, 2009

Heh nice.

roentarre · Apr 30, 2009

All the following images are published

Themes Of Time - Photography Flashes

Themes Of Time - Photography Flashes

Themes Of Time - Photography Flashes

SrBiscuit · Apr 30, 2009

Sw1tchFX said:
Out of curiosity, since this is in more then one publication, how did you set up the rights and payment? Is it something like 5 cents per publication printed? or is it just like $200 for everything and they can use it as much as they want whenever they want? I'm just curious how you set this up with them for something like this.

welllllllllll....
i am ready for an ass whooping on the following statement...
it was a favor for my friend.
*ducks under desk*

i have heard from multiple people that i passed up on some nice coin, but i talked to my friend, and they would have needed to write up a contract, have it approved...yadayada, so i figured, it's 10 minutes worth of "work" for a friend.
i thought about it, and if my company needed some professional copy for a marketing effort, i know i could call him and he would write me some copy as a favor.

was this a stupid move?...probably, but again...i was just excited at the notion of having a picture i took in some publications.

chastize away

Andrew Sun · Apr 30, 2009

Any publications of work is awesome - but, yeah payment is a must, always. Friends are friends, business is business, and when they get mixed up...ack! =O...

Great job anyway ^^

GeneralBenson · Apr 30, 2009

SrBiscuit said:
welllllllllll....
i am ready for an ass whooping on the following statement...
it was a favor for my friend.
*ducks under desk*

i have heard from multiple people that i passed up on some nice coin, but i talked to my friend, and they would have needed to write up a contract, have it approved...yadayada, so i figured, it's 10 minutes worth of "work" for a friend.
i thought about it, and if my company needed some professional copy for a marketing effort, i know i could call him and he would write me some copy as a favor.

was this a stupid move?...probably, but again...i was just excited at the notion of having a picture i took in some publications.

chastize away

You better go ahead and put on your flame suit... It's gonna get hot in here.

They just made an assload of money of off your work. You mention reciprocal work, but if you needed a copy done for something work related, and you called up your friend, and you knew you were going make a lot of money thanks to his copy work, would you not want to give him some of it? If you ask me that's a pretty crappy friend. He and his company just made a ton of money off of your creative work, and you didn't get any. What do you think a a national advertising contract with a company like M&M's is worth? They probably could have payed you a grand and still come in under budget. If you didn't even draw up a contract, how do they even have legal rights to use your image for advertising?

SrBiscuit · Apr 30, 2009

those are good questions...and im going to come off very ignorant here, or naive, or both...you pick...

but i have no idea how the legalities work with this photo...he called me, asked if i could help him out, so i did.
now that you mention it though...we have to jump through hoops at my company and refer to our corporate attorney even when we want to use an image that's "royalty free".

so i guess i should chalk this up to learning, and next time, even if it's my MOM who wants a pic for something....i'll make sure to get paid.

i know there;s money there, and im sure their take is lovely, but to be honest, i'm really ok with just doing this as a favor for a friend...i dont feel taken advantage of or anything. maybe i should, but i dont.

i'll go sit in the corner with my moron hat for a bit.

thanks for all your insight though guys...i'm clearly the dummy here, so i'll be more aware next time (if an opportunity comes up like this again).

Sw1tchFX · Apr 30, 2009

SrBiscuit said:
welllllllllll....
i am ready for an ass whooping on the following statement...
it was a favor for my friend.
*ducks under desk*

i have heard from multiple people that i passed up on some nice coin, but i talked to my friend, and they would have needed to write up a contract, have it approved...yadayada, so i figured, it's 10 minutes worth of "work" for a friend.
i thought about it, and if my company needed some professional copy for a marketing effort, i know i could call him and he would write me some copy as a favor.

was this a stupid move?...probably, but again...i was just excited at the notion of having a picture i took in some publications.

chastize away

i'm not going to say you did something wrong, you're happy, that's what counts.

it just baffles me though how money wasn't discussed in the phone call, your 'friend' took advantage of you.

YOU. GOT. USED.

but hey, we all learn from our mistakes. Now you know what to do next time if there is one.

Now you need to watch out though, your 'friend' might come back wanting more free work, and if you conjure up a day rate, then he'll probably say "no", or say something like "oh the paperwork...approval....contracts....blah...blah...blah.." It's also unprofessional on his part that there was no compensation and he probably manipulated his words so it sounded like you'd get fame and recognition because you're being published a few million times on an m&m. As a result, this made you feel like you didn't need to get paid becuase you're being published, and you can tell everyone you got published, even though it got you nothing. It's almost like doing weddings for free, which rarely is a good idea.

I dunno, for all we know, they could use this add next year, and the next...

DScience · Apr 30, 2009

SrBiscuit said:
i know there;s money there, and im sure their take is lovely, but to be honest, i'm really ok with just doing this as a favor for a friend...i dont feel taken advantage of or anything. maybe i should, but i dont.

I just have to disagree. The favor you did for your friend, was to cheat yourself. I hope you realize he took advantage of you, even if you don't 'feel' like he did.

It was not your friend who wanted the pic.....it was a company with tons of money. So in essence, you were doing M&M's a favor, but not your friend.

In2daBlue · Apr 30, 2009

Interesting conversation here. I am professional photographer and there are times I do pro-bono work. Recently a friend who has nickels for a savings account asked if I could shoot his wedding. He is a good friend, I like his wife, and I gladly did it without compensation. It didn't cost me anything but my time and he considered it a wedding present. No prints, though, of course.

I shot some promotional material for a local non-profit that I highly believe in last month. I wasn't compensated for the work, but I truly believe in the work they do and want them to spend the little money they have on doing their work in the community and not on paying me for the two hours of my time.

HOWEVER.

An ad agency that has M&Ms on board is making a boatload of money and is certainly a FOR-PROFIT venture. If someone is making profit off my photography that is where my line in the sand is drawn. Friends, family, the cutest girl I may ever know, doesn't matter. If someone is going to profit off your photo than you should profit as well. Otherwise, you're just devaluing your work, your talent and everything between.

I don't know your friend, but I think he is full of Sh*t. I work with many large ad agencies and they all have money to fork over for photography, especially ones with big national accounts like M&Ms. The least he could do, as a good friend, is tell you that he will get a retroactive contract written up, passed through legal, and then get you a check for the work. If time is the issue and you trust your friend, then sure, shoot the work with a gentleman's, or should I say "friendly" agreement that you will be paid after the fact after a suitable contract has been approved by all parties.

I have been paid numerous times for work after the shoot. In fact, much of my freelance editorial contracts have stipulations that I will be paid out within 90 days of publication. Fine, I can wait. But, no I won't shoot for free.

I always say it on here but it's worth repeating. If you don't value your work enough to demand payment for it than no one else ever will either.

Profit for photography starts with you.

tsaraleksi · Apr 30, 2009

Ninety days is a little optimistic, I think. People are terrible at paying-- this is perhaps the thing that I was most surprised about in professional photography.

Though 99% of the time they will eventually come through.