Flash and camera settings for a bush doof (rave)?

[DanPower]

Hey guys,

I've done some searching but the search function here returns some really vague results, it's hard to filter it out.... Mods if you think this belongs somewhere else please feel free to move it.

Basically a friend of mine is throwing a rave (bush party or doof) and I've offered to take photos. There's no expectations on me to deliver pro quality photos.... they can't afford a real photographer, and I want to use this as a learning experience. If we get some great photos then it's win/win, if we don't then it's not a big deal and I get to sink beers all night for nothing

For those of you who've been to a rave, skip this paragraph... those who havent, the scene is thus..... a nightclub, but in a paddock. It will be open air, no natural light but the show will involve lasers and light shows and probably some smoke. The main shots I can see in my mind are of the DJ's themselves (both close up and from behind the crowd, the DJ's will be partially under constant light but most likely coloured light), candid shots of the crowd and also wide angle crowd shots both from in front and behind the crowd.

The issues I've identified so far are:
* slow lenses and my camera's inability to handle super high ISO... therefore longer shutter speeds which doesn't help me capture people dancing etc
* the fact that I don't have a flash!!!

I currently have a 550d with the kit 18-55 and 55-250 lenses. I expect to use the 18-55 lens more than the 55-250, with the possible exception of some tripod-mounted shots of the DJ's from far away with the 55-250, but they will come late in the night. As this is not a paid gig I'm happy with the performance of the 18-55 kit lens, but I'm wondering whether I should consider hiring (or since this is a 5-day gig, just buying) a faster lens like the 18-55 f/2.8? Also I've decided that I would like to avoid using anything over ISO400 as I seem to get MAJOR noise at 400 and above... this is an issue for another discussion as I'm told the 550D should be usable up to 1600ISO, but anything over 400 for me is no good. Anyways let's just say I won't go about 400 or maybe 800 for this shoot.

The important thing..... and the one thing that I know NOTHING about though is..... flash. I have been considering buying a flash for a while, but this has kind of prompted me to think about it now. I don't want to spend $500 on a speedlight right now as I might find flash photography isn't my thing and never use it again. Are there cheaper alternatives that work as well? I have heard of Youngnor (youngor? yougnor? youngstore?) units but I on't know a lot about them and the reviews are very mixed. Does anyone have any real world experience on how they compare to the Speedlights? EDIT I have done a bit more googling and it seems you need to set the flash power manually.... is this an issue, or if you are in an evenly lit/unlit area (e.g inside a nightclub or outside in the dark on a farm) is the manual thing really an issue?

So here's the deal.... for this shoot I'm planning on using a hotshoe-mounted flash with a diffuser (or, since it's outside and there's no reflected light, should I consider a small lightbox?) for the close up crowd shots and maybe using the same flash as an off-camera for the DJ shots. Does this sound ok? Remember there will be no ceiling to bounce light off.... the only light I can put on the crowd will come directly from the flash. I also do not have access to reflectors or anything like that... I might be able to get some white sheets hung up around the DJ's to help with light but that's gonna be a stretch....

The biggest Q is should I be looking at one of these cheap chinese knockoff flashes or should I spring $500 for a speedlight? The main issue is that the canon speedlights cost a ****load and I might never use it again.... I have the money, but I would really rather not spend it particularly if I'm not going to use it much...

The second part of the question is that if you have one of these knockoff flashes, do they function as good as the speedlight or worse? Harder to set up? And I assume they take AA batteries, how long does it take to blast a set of batteries?

My budger for the ENTIRE flash setup (including batteries, diffuser, lightbox etc) is around the $200aud mark. As I said I *could* spend $1000 or more but as this is experimental and the first time I've done this I'd like to keep the budget down if possible....

Thankyou so much guys

 

[Buckster]

One thing that I know NOTHING about though is..... flash. I have been considering buying a flash for a while, but I can't afford $500 for a speedlight right now. Are there cheaper alternatives that work as well? I have heard of Youngnor (youngor? yougnor? youngstore?) units but I on't know a lot about them and the reviews are very mixed. Does anyone have any real world experience on how they compare to the Speedlights?

I use two Canon 580EXII speedlights and two Yongnuo YN-565EX speedlights regularly. They are nearly identical in all respects. The main functional difference is that the Yongnuo doesn't offer High Speed Sync. Beyond that, the differences are negligible from my POV, and include things like a threaded wheel vs a latch for locking the light down on a hot shoe, that sort of thing. The controls are slightly different: Buttons vs. the Canon's wheel, but easy to understand and work with. They both have LCD screens to show you what you've got going on. the housings and build quality are essentially exact copies of one another. Inputs, including a PC port and external battery pack socket are the same. The light seems to be the same in terms of strength, duration, quality and color temperature. The ETTL works the same with cameras and other lights in terms of using Master/Slave and channels on both the Canon and the Yongnuo.

All in all, if you don't need the HSS, the Yongnuo is a much better deal, dollar for dollar.

I'm planning on using a hotshoe-mounted flash (speedlight style, but probably a cheaper model) with a diffuser (or, since it's outside and there's no reflected light, should I consider a small lightbox?) for the close up crowd shots and maybe off-camera-mounting the flash for the DJ shots. Does this sound ok? Remember there will be no ceiling to bounce light off.... the only light I can put on the crowd will come directly from the flash. I also do not have access to reflectors or anything like that...

I still prefer to get the light off the camera, even in such restricted situations, even when that means holding it out or up at arm's length in my left hand, while I shoot with the right. Even a Stroboframe would be better than nothing for getting the light off the lens to avoid the bare bulb deer in the headlights look. And yes, use the largest diffuser you can manage under the circumstances.

The biggest Q is should I be looking at one of these (whatever they're called) chinese knockoff flashes or should I spring for a speedlight? The main issue is that the canon speedlights cost a ****load.... I have the money, but I would really rather not spend it particularly if I'm not going to use it much...

See above.

The second part of the question is that if you have one of these knockoff flashes, do they function as good as the speedlight or worse? Harder to set up? And I assume they take AA batteries, how long does it take to blast a set of batteries?

Yes, four AA batteries, same as the Canon. I haven't seen a difference in how long it takes to run them down between the two, but then again, I use external battery packs with all my flashes. Like the flashes themselves, I have two Canon CP-E4 packs and two off-brand Pixel TD-381 packs, and I can't tell a functional difference between them. They both extend the shoot time without batteries running down, and they decrease the ready time after a flash to practically zero, even when using full power pops.

 

[DanPower]

Thankyou Buckster, extremely informative as always. I was looking at the lower model YongNuo units (560, 468 etc) for around the $100 mark but for $150 I can get the model yu mention so I might just go that route.

Would you suggest direct flash, a diffuser or a lightbox for this situation? remember that this is mostly going to be completely outdoors with the only light sources being the lazers and stuff coming from the stage..

Thanks again

 

[Buckster]

Thankyou Buckster, extremely informative as always. I was looking at the lower model YongNuo units (560, 468 etc) for around the $100 mark but for $150 I can get the model yu mention so I might just go that route.

Would you suggest direct flash, a diffuser or a lightbox for this situation? remember that this is mostly going to be completely outdoors with the only light sources being the lazers and stuff coming from the stage..

Thanks again

I assume you're going to be moving around to get shots from all over the place. That said, I would suggest the largest diffuser you can manage single-handed under those circumstances, unless you have an assistant to help you. I'd probably use my Lumiquest Softbox III or maybe even try a Lumiquest Softbox LTp.

 

[o hey tyler]

If it were me, I'd get a prime lens. I'm not one for using flash at shows because it kind of kills the mood. You'd get much better shots, IMO, using the available light from the rave. The 50/1.4 would be a nice addition, or better yet for your purposes, a Sigma 30/1.4.

Your 550D should be usable up to ISO 800-1600 assuming you expose properly, and use a bit of noise reduction in post. I had a 500D at one point, and went to ISO 1600 from time to time.

 

[DanPower]

o hey tyler - thanks for the suggestion but a lens is definitely not available for this.. scratching just to buy a flash for it when it comes to lenses i'm just goin to have to deal with what I have. I was looking towards flash because it's going to be super dark, so I figured I'd need some extra boost. I might try to find a used 50mm f1.8 though, I could be able to swing for that........

 

[DanPower]

Ok..... well I sort of took your advice tyler... I stopped by Bing Lee on the way home today and bought a nifty fifty, definitely couldn't spring $500ish for a 1.4 but I got the 1.8 for $100 which is peanuts, and even though so far I've only taken two photos of my work boots (while I was wearing them) it seems pretty awesome. I thought the 50 might be too long on my 550 (crop) but it seems to be pretty good.... I assume that if I'm a bit close I can just foot zoom a few steps and boom there's my shot.

I've decided I'm also going to buy one of these YongNuo flashes with a small lightbox, since I got the 50 at a good price I can afford a flash and a cheap box diffuser and between the lens and the flash I should be able to shoot the buggery out of this rave!!!!

However I can see the issue with using white flash at a rave where all the lights are coloured.... the white flash is going to wash out the lazers and stuff.... I'm just going to have to experiment with it. Anyone have any tips about that??

And Buckster thankyou for the StroboFrame idea........ I have a very (very (VERY)) old Praktica with a lens extender on it, only because the Praktica has a 'shoe' not a 'hot shoe'.... lol. But I also have a small machine shop at my disposal (read: I have a lathe and mill in the garage) so I'm going to modify this bad boy to extend my flash up to say two or three feet to my left.... just for fun, see how it works

 

[DanPower]

The current update.... I bought a nifty fifty (1.8) and a YongNuo 565. I also spent this afternoon in the workshop knocking up a retractable 100-300mm coldshoe extender arm for the flash so I don't have to mount it directly on camera..... Just wondering though do I have to buy extra cables for this sort of setup or does the YongNuo come with all of those??

The only big issue left is the diffuser..... Should I be looking at a little plastic cap thingy or should I be after a 15x20" box, pr something in the middle? Is the bigger diffuser going to give me a more even light?

Thanks for your patience guys.

 

[Buckster]

The YN won't come with a cable. The 550D doesn't have a pc sync port if I recall correctly, so you'll need a hotshoe to pc sync cable, or a hotshoe to hotshoe cable (ETTL capable or not - both are available), or a wireless trigger set.

Use the biggest diffuser you can manage by hand (I think that's the third time I've responded the same way to that question for you). To get a better understanding of light, shadow, specular highlights, falloff, the inverse square law, and the rest, get Light Science and Magic and study it. Meanwhile, yes, a bigger diffuser (relative to the subject via distance) will give a more even light, which is why I keep saying you should use the biggest diffuser you can manage by hand, given your circumstances.

 

[DanPower]

Thanks Buckster, yep you've definitely said two or three times to go with the biggest diffuser I can get As for 'what I can handle' I can quite easily pop a 1/4 thread into the flash extender and there are $10 pistol grips on eBay, so managing the weight by hand is not a problem.

I can get a 20x30cm softbox for the 580ex for about 30 bucks (20 x 30cm Portable Universal Softbox 4 Hot Shoe Flash | eBay) which should fit the YN, and since I can offset it 300mm to the left that shouldn't get in the way of the lens at all.... Or I can get a slightly smaller one (Mini Softbox 15 x 12cm for Nikon Canon Yongnuo Flash | eBay) for about $15..... I'm guessing your response will be to go with the bigger one?

PS: this is an experimental shoot and I may never use this gear again.... my budget is $200 and I've already spend $250 so for the moment I want cheap solutions..........