Flash or LED?

[jamiebonline]

Hi all,

I am currently looking into buying an LED light for my Sony A6000. It might seem odd since I don't do much filming, it's almost all still shots but I just think an LED might be a much easier solution than using a flash. I wonder if anyone else here uses LEDs for photography? I basically want to use it outdoors in the shade, on cloudy days or in shaded areas to produce more punchy images and as a fill light. I have already decided to place the LED light on a tripod or lightstand at an angle from the model and closer to her/him than I am. It is so much cheaper and easier than flash. I have a poor Nissin flash, which is rubbish, won't work on the hotshoe of the A6000. I could buy a Sony flash which is more expensive than the LED I am looking at but it would need highspeed synch and triggers to give me what I need remotely.
My main concern is the weakness of the light coming from the LED. I am sure it could light a models face nicely in close proximately for headshots but for full body outdoors it might be useless?
I just want an inexpensive, easy to use, reliable light source and eventhough I have used speedlights before and even cheap strobes in a homemade studio, I find all the light gear talk and intricacies of what works with what, triggers, slaves and so on, confusing and off-putting. As well as more expensive. Can I escape it all by going LED?
Your thoughts are welcomed.

 

[tirediron]

Unless you're buying fairly large LED panels, I don't see this working well. Good quality LED light is still very,very pricey, and you need a lot of it. One Yongnuo speedlight and trigger set (<$100) will give you vastly superior results for far less money. The learning curve may seem steep, but one hour on YouTube and you'll be able to create decent portraits with little or no issue.

 

[jamiebonline]

Unless you're buying fairly large LED panels, I don't see this working well. Good quality LED light is still very,very pricey, and you need a lot of it. One Yongnuo speedlight and trigger set (<$100) will give you vastly superior results for far less money. The learning curve may seem steep, but one hour on YouTube and you'll be able to create decent portraits with little or no issue.

OK I see but could you give me an alternative to Yongnuo? None of the camera stores in this country stock them which is bizarre I know. I can order them but maybe there is an alternative. It is vital they work with the Sony and without hi-speed synch I can't see them being much good. Luckily I have a lightstand and light-box. Cheap but works ok.

 

[Derrel]

Yongnuo is not stocked in stores everywhere because it is sold mostly on-line, and the company doesn't really maintain a traditional network of distributors/retailers the way traditional brands have done.

I never thought that LED light was much use for stills until I watched the three-day Creative Live episode "The Doug Gordon Project". He showed how he uses his torchlight for fill. This is the unit he sells: Doug Gordon Workshops - Doug Gordon Brand New 2015 Professional Photography LED Torchlight Reg

There are some demonstration videos available of Gordon on-line. There is also this small, affordable book written about how to use LED lighting for still photography: LED Lighting Professional Techniques for Digital Photographers Kirk Tuck 9781608954476 Amazon.com Books

 

[tirediron]

Unless you're buying fairly large LED panels, I don't see this working well. Good quality LED light is still very,very pricey, and you need a lot of it. One Yongnuo speedlight and trigger set (<$100) will give you vastly superior results for far less money. The learning curve may seem steep, but one hour on YouTube and you'll be able to create decent portraits with little or no issue.

OK I see but could you give me an alternative to Yongnuo? None of the camera stores in this country stock them which is bizarre I know. I can order them but maybe there is an alternative. It is vital they work with the Sony and without hi-speed synch I can't see them being much good. Luckily I have a lightstand and light-box. Cheap but works ok.

Sony, Metz, Nissin, and a host of others. Search eBay under 'speedlight' or 'flash' and you'll find LOTS of options. Yongnuo is a good compromise of quality and price, and you shouldn't have any trouble getting them. Out of curiosity, WHY do you need HSS on a fill light?

 

[jamiebonline]

There are some demonstration videos available of Gordon on-line. There is also this small, affordable book written about how to use LED lighting for still photography: LED Lighting Professional Techniques for Digital Photographers Kirk Tuck 9781608954476 Amazon.com Books

Looks good. Thanks. The things I like about the LEDs, is I can see the fall of the light before I take the shot. Otherwise, using flash, I am using the small lcd screen on the camera to examine it after and it is quite hard to tell if it's OK. I think I should give them a try...

 

[jamiebonline]

[/QUOTE]
Sony, Metz, Nissin, and a host of others. Search eBay under 'speedlight' or 'flash' and you'll find LOTS of options. Yongnuo is a good compromise of quality and price, and you shouldn't have any trouble getting them. Out of curiosity, WHY do you need HSS on a fill light?[/QUOTE]

Yes, unfortunately the Nissin I have won't work with the Sony. For no apparent reason either! My Nikon did and the flash triggers for the Yongnuo I had worked with the Nissin ... sometimes. All this fiddling involved.

The Sony speedlights are more expensive. Even without HHS. Maybe I don't need it, yes you are right. I still have to find a speedlight that will definitely work with my A6000 (if it's third party) and then I have to buy flash triggers that work with both. And work fully. I have read and as I said, had experience, that stuff 'kind of' works when you are mixing different brands and you have to test them out somehow. From where I stand it seems like a lot of hassle. Not wishing to sound lazy Surely a 100 dollar led panel would work fine in lower light situations off camera nearer to the model?
I am not trying to argue for LEDs really but I don't want to waste money on either.

 

[Derrel]

The one thing I noticed for event work/weddings was Gordon's practice using the LED as fill light for indoor locations was that he would set the Torchlight to a Tungsten white balance, and then the camera set to tungsten WB, and then the ambient, indoor interior lighting matched his fill light in terms of background and subject lighting agreement. A second thing was that Gordon was using the Nikon D4, often at higher ISO values like 1600, and _always_ shoots JPEG in-camera, and has a super-fast post-processing system that uses a lot of the Kevin Kubota actions, and a special keypad to access them speedily. His studio employs 27 photographers, and shoots around 1,000 weddings every year, based out of Long Island, New York, so in the tri-state area his company has simply a huge population base to draw from. The way I looked at it, shooting SOOC JPEG, equalizing the foreground/background lighting as to white balance is one of the reasons for using the continually variable Torchlight, plus it does provide ancillary light for video.

Again...I was surprised at how well the LED system actually works when somebody who KNOWS how to use it shows how to do it. You set the light to the prevailing light's WB/color temp...that is step one. You're probably not going to find many people here on TPF who have any experience with LED lighting for still photography. All you will hear most likely is that it's no good. LED lighting for stills is "new", and there are many people who have never really seen what it can do, and have no idea of how to use it.

Fill light needs to be 2 to as much as 3 EV less than the ambient light. Using a TOP-level High ISO camera like the Nikon D4, which creates very,very clean ISO 1600 to 3200 shots, and has a lot of in-camera processing options for JPEG files, like in-camera vignetting control, in-camera pseudo-HDR processing, etc,etc.. he's got an entire "system" approach. I was skeptical until I watched how he used this one device in multiple scenarios. Again though--part of the success is the top-level high ISO camera and the ISO boost, and his willingness to shoot at f/2.8 quite a bit in dimmer light. This system seemed okay for weddings/events, but it is not without some limitations. But still: I went from total skepticism to , 'Huh...that works better than I could have ever imagined," over the course of two days.

 

[astroNikon]

FYI, at the cost of speedlights one can get into low cost strobes, such as
for $99.99 USD ==>320M 150 Watt AC DC Monolight Strobe FP-LF-M320

I thought they had a $49.95 smaller version too.
here it is @ $69.95 USD==> Flashpoint 160w Budget Pioneer Flash with Built-in Slave BF-160W

and they have kits too, such as this one => Flashpoint Budget Studio Monolight Flash 160 Watt Seconds - Portrait Kit BF-160W-K2

both I believe have modeling lamps.
I have 4 speedlights. I keep wanting to buy another but I told myself I need to buy 2 strobes instead as the available modifiers is the main advantage. But using them in a portable mode (battery) increases your cost versus AA batteries.

 

[jamiebonline]

The one thing I noticed for event work/weddings was Gordon's practice using the LED as fill light for indoor locations was that he would set the Torchlight to a Tungsten white balance, and then the camera set to tungsten WB, and then the ambient, indoor interior lighting matched his fill light in terms of background and subject lighting agreement. A second thing was that Gordon was using the Nikon D4, often at higher ISO values like 1600, and _always_ shoots JPEG in-camera, and has a super-fast post-processing system that uses a lot of the Kevin Kubota actions, and a special keypad to access them speedily. His studio employs 27 photographers, and shoots around 1,000 weddings every year, based out of Long Island, New York, so in the tri-state area his company has simply a huge population base to draw from. The way I looked at it, shooting SOOC JPEG, equalizing the foreground/background lighting as to white balance is one of the reasons for using the continually variable Torchlight, plus it does provide ancillary light for video.

Interesting info. I decided to buy one of the LEDs. Try it out and see. It wasn't very expensive but it is not a piece of rubbish either. It has an adjustable Kelvin dial. Personally I wanted to play around with Kelvin for other purposes. Warmer subjects against cooler backgrounds. Things that look unnatural but might have some artistic merit. I totally accept the LED light has limitations. I think on a sunny day, forget it. Or even in bright shade and to illuminate larger areas (unless I buy a bunch of them and make a big panel). I am thinking of lower light times. I don't have a Nikon D4. Wish I had a Sony A7s. Understand what you mean about ISO and it's performance relative to this. I also don't plan on shooting events at all for now. Just low light portrait work. It's even easier than using a reflector. Although they can be six feet long and that gives great coverage, the stand and boom arm is a pain to set up. I'd rather need an assistant and also you have very little control over a reflector. Even more limited.
As you said, LED is new. But what a terrific potential solution. All those bits and bobs working or not working with various camera models can be eliminated in time maybe.

(I have two cheap strobe lights that worked fine in studio but I shoot outdoor and they are not battery operated.)