Flash outdoors, no gels, lesser of two evils?

[JustJazzie]

This is a continuation of my groups post, but I'm running out of time here, and wanted to be sure it was seen as a separate question.

The massive amounts of snow we were promised never came. We got less than half an inch total, so I told my friend we can give the park a shot. (It gets shaded pretty early, so while I don't love the background it will make the mom happy that we at least tried)

I have one speed light I can bring along, (YN560exii) but no gels. I'm sure I can find a way to mount it into a modifier like my huge soft box, I could probably hang my white shower curtain on my boom stand as we'll, in hopes it would reflect something. Is it better to bring along an ungelled flash for shade, or better to just throw them in shade and deal with flat lighting?

We're talking REALLY shaded here. The sun is behind the Mountian by that time, but no sunset colors yet. Just dim, flat, shade. Thoughts?

 

[tirediron]

What did you want to gel your flash to? If it's deep shade, chances are your speedlight is going to function as the only light source. I wouldn't worry about it in a situation like that, but I would dial down the flash output a bit so that you don't get glaring, bright, white highlights.

One other suggestion, and something I always do with group photos is give them time to relax in-pose; that is: I get the group together, standing how I want them, and then I say, "Okay, don't worry about your expressions, these first couple of shots are just to make sure the lighting's correct." I then take a couple of shots, check my shadows, hightlights, backgrounds, etc, VERY carefully, especially out of doors, and then walk over make an adjustment to one of my lights (even if I'm not actually doing anything, it gives them impression that there's a reason they're standing there), and then fine-tune them into position, "chin out, chin down" "hair, necklaces, watches, cuffs, rings... etc". The idea is to get them comfortable in a close group, and also to allow you to be in charge, "Stand there... wait!"

 

[Braineack]

You can put them in shade. The whole point to the flash is to flatten the lighting in that situation.

 

[JustJazzie]

What did you want to gel your flash to? If it's deep shade, chances are your speedlight is going to function as the only light source. I wouldn't worry about it in a situation like that, but I would dial down the flash output a bit so that you don't get glaring, bright, white highlights.

One other suggestion, and something I always do with group photos is give them time to relax in-pose; that is: I get the group together, standing how I want them, and then I say, "Okay, don't worry about your expressions, these first couple of shots are just to make sure the lighting's correct." I then take a couple of shots, check my shadows, hightlights, backgrounds, etc, VERY carefully, especially out of doors, and then walk over make an adjustment to one of my lights (even if I'm not actually doing anything, it gives them impression that there's a reason they're standing there), and then fine-tune them into position, "chin out, chin down" "hair, necklaces, watches, cuffs, rings... etc". The idea is to get them comfortable in a close group, and also to allow you to be in charge, "Stand there... wait!"

You can put them in shade. The whole point to the flash is to flatten the lighting in that situation.

Thanks guys! You have no idea how much I appreciate your help here! It looks like I will only be able to rig up the flash behind the diffusion panel so only one light source. My reflector is way to small for such a group. Do you have a suggestion on where to begin placement my only light? I know I'll have to adjust after my light check, just a ball park will be super helpful!
The sun will be setting to the left, but again, I think my flash will be the main light. Is 45° too far to the side for such a large group? Or a good starting point?

 

[Braineack]

straight on camera wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Do you have the diffuser cap for your YN560?

I shot this is shade using 1 bounce umbrella (non-diffused) at 45°. My camera axis light didn't fire on this frame. I postioned them in a way to get some rim light from the sun.


DSC_5116-2-2 by The Braineack, on Flickr

That looks pretty natural, but I still preferred it with the fill light:

DSC_5128-6-6 by The Braineack, on Flickr

really fills in the deep shadows and removes the raccoon eyes from the guy especially. Probably a little brighter than it should have been set to.

 

[JustJazzie]

straight on camera wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Do you have the diffuser cap for your YN560?

I shot this is shade using 1 bounce umbrella (non-diffused) at 45°. My camera axis light didn't fire on this frame. I postioned them in a way to get some rim light from the sun.

DSC_5116-2-2 by The Braineack, on Flickr

No diffuser cap. I can rig something I guess. Do you think my diffusion panel (aka shower curtain from my selfie set clipped to a boom stand with the flash on a second stand behind it) is a bad idea? If so, why would a cap be a better idea??

 

[tirediron]

Thanks guys! You have no idea how much I appreciate your help here! It looks like I will only be able to rig up the flash behind the diffusion panel so only one light source. My reflector is way to small for such a group. Do you have a suggestion on where to begin placement my only light? I know I'll have to adjust after my light check, just a ball park will be super helpful!
The sun will be setting to the left, but again, I think my flash will be the main light. Is 45° too far to the side for such a large group? Or a good starting point?

So... get a new reflector; 3'x6' reflectors for only $13.50! As far as light placement goes, a lot is going depending on the ambient light at the location, but I would be more inclined to start around 30 degrees, given the size of your group.

 

[tirediron]

..No diffuser cap. I can rig something I guess.

What, yours is the only house in North America without a diffusion-dome drawer????

Do you think my diffusion panel (aka shower curtain from my selfie set clipped to a boom stand with the flash on a second stand behind it) is a bad idea? If so, why would a cap be a better idea??

Bigger light sources are in general almost always better, however I wonder if it might not be a bit too much to deal with as far as setting up.

 

[JustJazzie]

..No diffuser cap. I can rig something I guess.

What, yours is the only house in North America without a diffusion-dome drawer????

Do you think my diffusion panel (aka shower curtain from my selfie set clipped to a boom stand with the flash on a second stand behind it) is a bad idea? If so, why would a cap be a better idea??

Bigger light sources are in general almost always better, however I wonder if it might not be a bit too much to deal with as far as setting up.

Lol! I am working on my pile of photo gear. Unfortunately I spent three years afraid of flash and bying eBay junk hot lighting that I'm behind!

The setup is actually easier than a softbox! Only takes about five minutes.

 

[tirediron]

Is it stable if a breeze comes up?

 

[ronlane]

Jazzie, you need a diffuser dome? Go to the store and buy a small plastic bottle of rubbing alcohol. dump the contents and cut the end off the bottle. They are just a tad bigger than my flash but will tape to it when placed over it and there you have a cheap and easy DIY dome.

Oh forgot, if you need it a little softer, you can take a piece of gift wrapping tissue and stuff in the end of the bottle to further soften the light.

 

[kundalini]

At 45° you will likely cast unwanted shadows on people that are slightly behind the person next to them. I would consider your flash more as a Fill light than a Main. I generally place the Fill light 6" to 18" to the side of the camera, right or left, depending.

 

[JustJazzie]

I was going to weight it down with hand weights, so I think it would be stable enough?

A diffusion dome?! Duh. I chopped off the top of a spray bottle a few months ago trying to make a "Gary fong type" diffuser. Forgot all about it since I have never needed to use it!

 

[Designer]

No diffuser cap. I can rig something I guess. Do you think my diffusion panel (aka shower curtain from my selfie set clipped to a boom stand with the flash on a second stand behind it) is a bad idea? If so, why would a cap be a better idea??

I think the issue with the shower curtain may be the degree of light transmissibility. IOW: how much light can get through the shower curtain? A regular diffusion dome is fairly translucent, but even then everything you place between the flash and your subject will cut some light.

Actually, the smallish caps are not necessarily a better idea, just more convenient. If you have enough time to experiment, do that. Take some test shots at something, and see if the shower curtain does the trick.

Incidentally, I made a diffusion dome out of a white plastic milk jug.

 

[ronlane]

Now ^^^^ that is a diffuser. Nice one Designer.