Flash umbrella producing hard light

[juicegoose]

Over the weekend i tried using a flash mounted to a shoot through umbrella. The umbrella was set around 20 feet back and at 45 degree angle to subject but even at 1/64 power the flash was harsh and very obvious. What am i missing?

 

[pixmedic]

can you post a picture of your setup?
how big was the umbrella? were you getting spillover?
also, the closer you are with the umbrella, the softer the light.

 

[Braineack]

what were the camera settings?

 

[ronlane]

Why 20 feet back? When I was learning, they were telling me to use it about 3-4 feet away and even then it was sometimes showing as a small light.

 

[HughGuessWho]

Why 20 feet back? When I was learning, they were telling me to use it about 3-4 feet away and even then it was sometimes showing as a small light.

Yup. 20 feet away is your problem. Just remember, Closer = Softer (better) Light.

 

[juicegoose]

Problem was it was a group shoot so i was zoomed out. I think you guys nailed it though. I was shooting to far back. Umbrella that is.

 

[Big Mike]

The softness of a light is determined by it's size in relation to the subject...it's relative size.

For example, the reason that an umbrella makes a light softer, is that from the subject's perspective, the light goes from the size of the flash head, to the size of the umbrella (or the area of the fabric that the light is hitting). But the other way to make something larger, relative to the subject, is to move it closer.

So yes, you are making the light softer by using the umbrella, but because it's so far away from the subject, it's still a very hard light on your subject. Also, an umbrella spreads light out, much wider than you'll need for a person (in most cases). At at 20' feet away, you're light is probably wide enough for a 30' tall person....and because your person is person sized, the rest of that light is wasted. In fact, I'm thinking that at 1/64 power, through an umbrella and 20 feet away...so very little of that light is actually getting to your subject, that you would need exptreme exposure settings.

So, the moral of the story is that if you want soft light, you need to make your light a large as possible, in relation to the subject. So using an umbrella is good, but you also want it to be as close to the subject as possible. Most time, our umbrella or softbox is as close as we can get it, before it gets into the frame....sometimes it's in the frame and we crop it off later.

If you can't get the light any closer than 20'...then your only option for softness would be to make it very, very large.

 

[table1349]

This would also be a good read. Light Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780240812250: Amazon.com: Books

 

[hirejn]

As others have said, the distance is making the size of the light source small relative to the subject, creating harsher light. At a distance of 20 feet, an umbrella becomes a small light source and the umbrella at that distance is essentially useless. Obviously you have to find another solution for a group. What I do for wedding formals is set up two lights pointed directly at the group but from a height of about 8 feet or so, both with umbrellas, and as close as I can get them without being in the frame. This eliminates background shadows and glare and creates a generally soft light. Another solution is to rig a 4x6 soft box over the group for an even softer light. The rule of thumb is the closer and larger the light source, the softer the light; the further and smaller the light source, the harsher the light. How you work around it is up to you.

 

[juicegoose]

Do you find that you use shoot through or reflective umbrellas more?

 

[Big Mike]

Do you find that you use shoot through or reflective umbrellas more?

That is sort of an age-old debate. I've had pros tell me that they only shoot though...and other tell me that they only reflect.

I prefer to reflect out.

But I prefer to use a softbox even more.

 

[juicegoose]

I have two paul c buff white lightnings with all kind of softboxes but i havent been able to find an adaptor. Is there a good softbox size for flashes?

 

[Big Mike]

I have two paul c buff white lightnings with all kind of softboxes but i havent been able to find an adaptor. Is there a good softbox size for flashes?

Hold your flash away from the wall, about the distance as the depth of a softbox. Fire the flash as watch for the size of the spot of light on the wall. (probably best to use wide zoom setting on the flash head). You don't need a softbox any larger than that spot of light. Or maybe larger if the softbox has an internal diffuser.

16x16, 20x20 & 24x24 seem to be popular sizes for flash unit softboxes.
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Photo / Video 24in Large Speedlite Flash Softbox with L-Bracket, Shoe Mount and Carry Case: Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Photo / Video 16 inch Speedlight Flash Softbox with L-Bracket, Shoe Mount and Carry Case: Camera & Photo